2010-02-02

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This meeting was called on January 28th, 2010 and meets the definition of an Emergency Meeting as per the USPP Constitution

[edit] Agenda

  1. Set definitive date for elections for remaining offices for the remainder of the term ending in July.
  2. Discuss possible legal actions to take against former administrator Ryan Martin for failure to turn over administration of the party to Brittany Phelps.
  3. Related to above - discuss 5-year ban on Mr Martin, for actions contrary to the interests of the party.
  4. Make sure people know that we aren't the PPUS, but rather the USPP. A lot of people have been erroneously using the PPUS acronym lately.
  5. Consideration of using an amended version of Roberts Rules of Order for USPP meetings.

[edit] Log

20:14:09 <Rath> Alrighty folks, let's call the meeting to order.

20:14:19 <alex> I want to influence primary elections to get Pirate Democrats elected rather than non-Pirate Democrats.

20:14:45 <QuazarGuy> I like that idea

20:14:49 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> that's cool alex, but we stick to the agendas during meetings

20:14:54 <alex> ok

20:14:55 <Rush> Indeed

20:14:58 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> you can add it i think

20:15:06 <Rath> Alright, roll call. Who all's present?

20:15:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> next meeting maybe?

20:15:11 <D-USA> we can stick around after the meeting is adjurned and address your thoughts

20:15:15 <Rath> Brittany Phelps, Arizona

20:15:18 <owen> Owen Kahn, Maine

20:15:21 <Rush> Bradley Hall, Florida

20:15:23 <D-USA> Marcus Kesler, Oklahoma

20:15:25 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Jay Emerson, NY, here

20:15:26 <TeamColtra> Travis McCrea Alaska

20:15:26 <alex> Alex Eagar, Utah

20:15:32 <K`Tetch> Andrew Norton, Georgia

20:15:34 <QuazarGuy> Jeffrey Talada, Washington

20:15:59 <WebGuest65> Uh, should I do the same then?

20:16:01 <Pugnax> Hugh Russ, NV

20:16:06 <owen> Go for it, WebGuest65

20:16:11 <WebGuest65> Benjamin Brumer, California

20:16:14 <Rath> crash ?

20:16:37 <K`Tetch> assume he's not here then

20:16:46 -!- Haplo!~Haplo@A7F3CDC.45D787E7.3B43FFE6.IP has joined #meeting

20:16:47 <D-USA> 11 members present

20:16:53 <Haplo> I'll be idling but I'm present

20:16:55 <D-USA> haplo, identify yourself

20:17:16 <D-USA> 12 present

20:17:32 <Rath> Alright

20:18:06 <Rath> We have quorum, whoo!, as we have two officers, D-USA and myself, present, and plenty more than 2 non-officers, so we can go ahead and proceed to the first item

20:18:18 <Rath> Elections for the remaining offices

20:18:41 <Rath> We've got three offices with candidates at the moment. All three candidates are here, as it were

20:19:10 <K`Tetch> ok, we have to close nominations at least 7 days before an election

20:19:13 <TeamColtra> Can you list the spots and candidates so we know who and what those are?

20:19:20 <QuazarGuy> How many offices without candidates?

20:19:21 <K`Tetch> and we've not formally announced opening of candidacy

20:19:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> good call

20:19:24 <Rath> CaPtAiN_KiDd is running for Operations, TeamColtra is running for Promotions, and Rush for Records

20:19:37 <owen> Ardeo's still AWOL?

20:19:39 <K`Tetch> 5 of the 7, QuazarGuy

20:19:40 <D-USA> I think the biggest complaint other's have with the party is that the "IRC Crowd" runs the party. I think we need to post notice about the fact that we have elections and what the openings are on the twitter/facebook/front page

20:19:40 <Rath> The only other offices without candidates are Legal and Financial, QG

20:20:11 <K`Tetch> QuazarGuy - http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Constitution#Article_1:_Separation_of_Powers states the positions and the powers

20:20:19 <K`Tetch> all positions would last until July

20:20:20 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> And ya can't be legal without being a lawyer

20:20:26 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> from what I understand

20:20:27 <K`Tetch> when they will be up for election again

20:20:37 <D-USA> I think if we post the notices ASAP, we can give a week for people to nominate

20:20:40 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, even if you can, it would be highly ineffective

20:20:43 <D-USA> close nominations next tuesday

20:20:50 <D-USA> and elections the tuesday after that

20:20:54 <K`Tetch> yeah, week for nominations, and a week to 'stump'

20:20:58 <K`Tetch> elections in 2 weeks time

20:21:02 <Rath> K'Tetch, all three have made an announcement of candidacy on the forums. That's all that's required, per the constitution.

20:21:07 <D-USA> So actual elections would be February 16th, 2010

20:21:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rath has a point

20:21:16 <K`Tetch> right, but no annoucnement that cnadidacy is open

20:21:25 <K`Tetch> candidacy

20:21:39 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, it says on the officer page

20:21:40 <K`Tetch> so others may not know

20:21:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Isn't that covered by the "VACANT" notice on the officers section?

20:22:06 <Rath> Where are you seeing this, K'Tetch?

20:22:13 <D-USA> KiDd: But people don't know when elections for those officers are. That's my only real concern about holding elections now

20:22:22 <Rush> I know right off we can advertise on the Facebook, dunno about the site or twitter, are they functional? And odds are we'll get a bunch of punks running for posts

20:22:47 <owen> Rush: Twitter's no good, but the site's golden.

20:23:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> All nominations shall be accomplished by either announcing candidacy for a position, or by having someone else announce the candidate's nomination for the position. The nominee may withdraw the nomination at any time before the actual vote. Nominations shall be announced a minimum term of 7 days before a vote should be held. Nominations may be held open for up to 30 days. All nominations must be announced in a public area, such

20:23:10 <owen> I say close on the 9th, vote the 16th, seems reasonable to me.

20:23:17 <Rush> And as far as the IRC Crowd is running things, we're the people who show up. They know there's meetings here, it's their fault they don't show

20:23:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Nothin about effectively advertising past the VACANT notice on the officers page

20:23:47 <TeamColtra> I started the clock over a week ago with my candidacy proposal

20:24:03 <D-USA> I was only worried that posting "vacant" is not the same as posting "we are having elections"

20:24:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Unless we wanna make up stuff as we go along :-P

20:24:21 <K`Tetch> yeah, but the officers page doesn't say anything about posting candidacy, it says 'if you're intersted, email info@'

20:24:21 <owen> 9th and 16th is all Tuesdays, fair notice, gives seven days, and falls within 30 days.

20:24:36 <D-USA> Having a "vacant" leaves no notice as to when the deadline of "7 days before elections" takes effect

20:24:44 <Rath> The Constitution states "All nominations shall be accomplished by either announcing candidacy for a position, or by having someone else announce the candidate's nomination for the position. The nominee may withdraw the nomination at any time before the actual vote. Nominations shall be announced a minimum term of 7 days before a vote should be held."

20:24:51 <TeamColtra> D-USA, however, if someone wants to be an officer of the party, they should also be able to understand the bylaws of the party and know how to apply, and also keep up with even a little forum activity and see that others have put their nomination in

20:25:22 <K`Tetch> TeamColtra - but with no notification that there is another election, or when, you can't close nominations without having set a date for the elecyion

20:25:25 <K`Tetch> election

20:25:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Are we gonna go by interpretation of the officer's page or the constitutiont

20:25:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ?

20:25:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> *constitution

20:25:48 <K`Tetch> constitutoin is binding

20:25:55 <K`Tetch> officer page isn't

20:26:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well then, what does it say about this in the constitution

20:26:06 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ?

20:26:08 <QuazarGuy> Then the officer's page requires updating

20:26:16 <K`Tetch> already said that

20:26:19 <Rath> Yes, it does.

20:26:20 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> oh

20:26:22 <K`Tetch> because right now it's completely out of date

20:26:26 <Rath> A lot of stuff needs updating >.<

20:26:32 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yup

20:26:34 <Rush> It's been out of date for over a month

20:26:40 <Rath> I just got the access today, though =x

20:26:41 <Rath> Anyways

20:26:43 <Rath> Elections

20:26:44 <owen> Rush, we got access at like 4 PM.

20:26:45 <K`Tetch> we've just been unable to do so, until, I believe, today

20:26:47 <TeamColtra> Rath, which brings me to the point that we need officers in positions to start doing stuff

20:26:52 <K`Tetch> which is covered in point 2

20:27:01 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Second Coltra's statement

20:27:30 <owen> Proposal - Let's announce elections tonight, to be held on Tuesday the 16th.

20:27:32 <Rath> Yes, we do. But speeding the process to the point of unfairness is wrong.

20:27:41 <K`Tetch> nominations close 9th, election 16th is a fair way to make sure anyone intersted does both know about the election, and can post a nomination

20:27:42 <Rath> I second owen's proposal.

20:27:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> another two weeks of an extension for "effectively" advertising the posts seems counterproductive and we're also assuming everyone has a Facebook

20:27:59 <TeamColtra> second CaPtAiN_KiDd

20:28:00 <owen> Any objections/alternative suggestions?

20:28:02 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - we can now do the site

20:28:03 <Rath> I will send out a message to the FB tonight, on the Alpha group, and on the site

20:28:09 <owen> CaPtAiN_KiDd: It'd be on the website as well.

20:28:09 <Rath> I can't do any more than that.

20:28:23 <K`Tetch> and the 'twitter'

20:28:34 <owen> K`Tetch: We don't have access to that, do we?

20:28:35 <K`Tetch> (and identica)

20:28:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> owen: I think Rath's hands are tied by the letter of the constitution on this

20:28:40 <K`Tetch> we have one of them

20:28:49 <Rath> It's not worth being unfair to any other potential candidates just to speed the process a bit.

20:28:51 <owen> CaPtAiN_KiDd, what do you mean?

20:28:53 <D-USA> if we hold elections next week, it just reeks of "let's close the candidacy perior before anybody opposes us"

20:28:56 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - ownes proposal is perfectly acceptable within the constitution

20:29:14 <TeamColtra> I would like to make a proposal that we post, and have 3 additional days for nominations, and then a week before voting, unless there were no nomination, in which case we can say that those spots were filled automttically

20:29:17 <TeamColtra> as per the constitution

20:29:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> oh, no, i thought Rath was saying that ccording to the constitution the 7 day rule was all we could do

20:29:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> nevermind :-)

20:29:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> *according'

20:29:30 <Rath> Nah

20:29:41 <Rath> owen's proposal is perfect.

20:29:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> if that's not the case then I say owen's proposal

20:30:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah

20:30:02 <owen> Ah, sweeet. :-)

20:30:06 <Rath> Well, at least that's my opinion xD

20:30:10 <Rath> Alright. So

20:30:14 <Rush> I like Coltra's, if no one is running for a position, why have an election for it? We know who's gonna win

20:30:21 <QuazarGuy> Is there anything keeping people from performing the actions of positions without being in the position?

20:30:29 * D-USA makes a motion to hold elections on February 16th, meaning people have until the 9th to nominate

20:30:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rush has a point

20:30:42 <TeamColtra> I agree with rush (which is agreeing with me :P )

20:30:42 <Rath> We need to give time to anyone else who's interested in running.

20:30:45 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> being unopposed is in the constitution I assume to speed up the process

20:31:01 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so thats a judgement call really

20:31:04 <Rush> And I agree with Coltra

20:31:18 <D-USA> let me ammend then

20:31:28 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Yeah, sorry owen, gonna have to go with Coltra on this

20:31:29 <Rath> Yes. But would that sort of election really befit the party that advocates openness?

20:31:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> constitutionally that is

20:31:39 <Rush> True

20:31:41 <Rath> If we get to the ninth and nobody else runs against you all, that's great

20:31:51 <K`Tetch> indeed, an unoposed election

20:31:53 <K`Tetch> well, kinda

20:31:54 <Rush> We could keep the one person ballots, but have write-ins available too

20:31:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ok, i'm not typing anything until others debate

20:31:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol

20:32:05 <TeamColtra> Rath, its currently in the constitution that if there are no opposers there is no election

20:32:18 * D-USA makes a motion to hold elections on February 16th, meaning people have until the 9th of february to nominate. If offices are unopposed by the deadline, the candidate shall be declared the winner and hold said office effective February 10th

20:32:19 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra is right

20:32:19 <D-USA> ?

20:32:34 <TeamColtra> :) I wasn't being intelligent with this radical idea... just quoting :P

20:32:47 <owen> TeamColtra, your proposal is to vote on the 9th?

20:32:53 <owen> Am I correct?

20:33:04 <D-USA> I am very opposed to voting on the 9th

20:33:13 <D-USA> that means nominations are closed, without any announcement

20:33:19 <K`Tetch> I vote aye on D-USA's proposal

20:33:22 <Haplo> wait

20:33:27 <owen> Closed as of today, yeah.

20:33:30 <owen> Haplo?

20:33:37 <Haplo> if there is no opposition then why would there be a vote

20:33:38 <TeamColtra> owen, 12th technically

20:33:42 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - do you remember how upset you were when you thought there was a Q+A on facebook, nd no-one told you?

20:33:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Haplo is right

20:33:56 <TeamColtra> lol Haplo thats what we are saying

20:34:00 <Haplo> who is running unopposed, and who isn't?

20:34:08 <D-USA> but we have not even announced a vote, to see if there is anyone else interested in running against anyone

20:34:09 <TeamColtra> all of us are unopposed

20:34:09 <owen> Haplo, everyone's unapposed,

20:34:13 <Rath> All of them are running unopposed

20:34:16 <owen> but nobody outside the party core knows they can run.

20:34:24 <owen> Here, compromise.

20:34:27 <Haplo> I thought there were several announcements

20:34:36 <Rath> Not widely, no

20:34:37 <D-USA> other than the logs of the meeting two weeks ago

20:34:41 <owen> Elections on the 12th.

20:34:42 <K`Tetch> no, no annoucnements of a date of election (which would also imply a termination of nomination)

20:34:43 <Rath> Announcements to run for those positions

20:34:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Several announcements, all for different positions lol

20:34:52 <Rush> I'm sure I mentioned we were going ot be holding elections for the other positions in a message, I think

20:34:53 <Rath> Oy, brb

20:34:54 <owen> That's three more days for nominations, if anybody wants to,

20:34:57 <TeamColtra> We can't hold back progress of the party, because there may be someone who doesn't follow what the party does

20:35:05 <Rath> No, I don't believe you did, Rush

20:35:11 <Rush> oops

20:35:39 <owen> The 12th is only three days later than the 9th, but that's still a window for nominations.

20:35:47 <Rush> I get what Coltra's saying, do we really want someone to run who doesn't know exactly what's going on?

20:35:48 <D-USA> but closing the nominations, without any official announcment, does not seem to be very transparent

20:35:49 <owen> How do people feel about that compromise?

20:35:54 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra has a point

20:35:58 <owen> Elections on the 12th!

20:36:05 <owen> Small window for nominations, not too much delay!

20:36:12 <Rush> today is the 2nd

20:36:27 <K`Tetch> you can't announce the election date and close the nominations at the same time

20:36:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> We advertise elections, an outside party member sees it, makes a whole bunch of email accounts to sign up to vote

20:36:42 <K`Tetch> and annoucing an interest in a position also doesn't logically follow there is an election

20:36:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and then we have a problem

20:36:44 <K`Tetch> or when it is

20:36:53 <D-USA> that's a risk we take

20:36:55 <Rath> Why not set elections for the 16?

20:37:06 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> jeez the 16th?

20:37:07 <QuazarGuy> You have to be a paying member to vote right?

20:37:10 <D-USA> if nobody opposes we will have officers boarded next week

20:37:15 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Yeah, but not now

20:37:19 <owen> tweeeelth

20:37:23 <Rath> We haven't a mechanism for keeping track of payments

20:37:25 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> right now if you can make an account on the site

20:37:28 <Rath> And i don't even have the paypal info yet >.<

20:37:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> you get to vote

20:37:57 <owen> The twelfth would have a window. no closing nominations immediately.

20:37:59 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> All i'm saying is that what stops "outside forces" from stuffing the ballot?

20:38:09 <K`Tetch> nothing, same as with the last two election

20:38:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Anybody wanna work with tylerknowsthis as Operations Officer?

20:38:18 <D-USA> what keeps the "inside forces" of blocking the ballot

20:38:21 <owen> Lol, not at all.

20:38:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> my point exactly

20:38:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :-)

20:38:38 <TeamColtra> lol

20:38:49 <owen> But I don't see how a three-day window for nominations will destroy everything.

20:38:49 <D-USA> by keeping outsiders out, we are not transparent IMO

20:39:09 <owen> TeamColtra's argument against delaying makes sense, no need to wait a week,

20:39:11 <WebGuest65> To interject, I find owen's plan appealing.

20:39:16 <owen> but we should be at least somewhat open.

20:39:21 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ok, hold elections, I wanna win with exactly 69 votes

20:39:29 <TeamColtra> lol now even owen doesn't find his plan appealing WebGuest65

20:39:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> all by crazy people

20:39:48 <alex> Perhaps we could have people register with their name and mailing address and or telephone number and then send them a verification code to verify membership.

20:40:00 <owen> TeamColtra: Yes I do

20:40:01 <D-USA> big hassle really

20:40:07 <owen> I'm just compromising.

20:40:11 <Rush> that would take too long and cost money we don't have the luxury of spending

20:40:19 <TeamColtra> owen, well I like your compromised plan better

20:40:22 <TeamColtra> ;)

20:40:23 <WebGuest65> To have the election on the 12th?

20:40:36 <owen> TeamColtra, you do?

20:40:39 <K`Tetch> alex - thats the plan

20:40:39 <TeamColtra> elections on the 12th unless no more people run in 3 days

20:40:39 <owen> 12th would be good, I think.

20:40:42 <alex> The last election had less than 50 people vote, I think we can afford 50 text messages or letters.

20:41:03 <K`Tetch> we can't afford anything right now, because of item 2

20:41:11 <D-USA> we are a party of Privacy, I don't know if asking people for ID for a party full of people they don't know is appealing

20:41:14 <TeamColtra> alex, I have a text messaging system that I want to encorporate but am running into issues

20:41:16 <Rush> 64 people registered to vote, but only half actually did

20:41:21 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I'm gonna win Operations Officer either by being unopposed or by soliciting for my election to others that can make an account and vote even though they might not even know what this party even is

20:41:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> under current election rules, that's legal

20:41:42 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> just sayin

20:41:50 <alex> Unless someone does it better than you.

20:41:58 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> True alex lol

20:42:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so it's a race to get votes with something easier then collecting signatures for a petition

20:42:55 * Rath moves to have elections on the 12th, with nominations closing on the... 5th?

20:43:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I can go to Facebook and have any random group i'm a part of flood the place to vote

20:43:12 <TeamColtra> i second that

20:43:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> under current terms for election

20:43:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> second that as well

20:43:25 <TeamColtra> however, I would like to ammend that if there are no further nominations

20:43:29 <K`Tetch> thats why, when I ran the July election, when I closed nominations and annoucned the format of the election, I also annnounced that website accounts made prior to that weren't acceptable. and to vote you had to have a website account, or have participated in a meeting

20:43:34 <TeamColtra> that we just have people accepted on the 5th

20:43:49 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra read my mind

20:43:52 <K`Tetch> thats what the constitution sayys travis

20:44:05 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, I just want to make sure we are all clear

20:44:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah, im goin by what i read in the constitution

20:44:14 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, its a short book ;)

20:44:18 <K`Tetch> All officers shall be elected by veto consensus vote. This means that members shall be nominated by any member the electoral body of the Pirate Party for a specific position. If there shall be no dissenting voice, the nomination shall stand, and no seconding nomination shall be needed. An agreement among the peers involved in the election process shall suffice unless there be contention about who is the best candidate, at which time a vote may be called by the

20:44:21 * owen votes aye on Rath's proposal

20:44:23 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> techincally wednesday i'm Op Officer automatically

20:44:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> unless we amend it right now

20:45:13 <D-USA> if any office has no canditate by the 5th, it will remain empty

20:45:19 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and from what I understand we can't amend the constitution until July

20:45:21 <K`Tetch> until the next cycle, yes

20:45:23 <D-USA> if any office only has one candidate by the 5th, it will be filled by the 6th

20:45:33 <TeamColtra> I move to vote?

20:45:35 <owen> Alright, fair enough.

20:45:36 <owen> Vote!

20:45:39 <Rath> Alright. All in favor, vote aye.

20:45:40 <D-USA> if any office has two or more candidated by teh 5th, there will be a vote

20:45:41 * owen votes aye

20:45:45 * Rath votes aye

20:45:46 <K`Tetch> aye

20:45:49 * TeamColtra votes aye

20:45:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> wait, state whats being voted on first

20:46:01 <owen> 20:40 * Rath moves to have elections on the 12th, with nominations closing on the... 5th?

20:46:02 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so there's no confusion for the new peoples :-)

20:46:14 <Rush> what are we voting on

20:46:16 <TeamColtra> I move to vote that nominations close on the 5th and votes will happen 7 days later

20:46:23 <TeamColtra> all in favor say aye

20:46:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Aye!

20:46:32 <alex> aye

20:46:34 <Rush> aye

20:46:36 * TeamColtra votes aye

20:46:39 * K`Tetch votes AYE

20:46:50 <Rush> wait

20:46:59 <Rush> why the 5th? That's 3 days

20:47:12 <owen> Rush, yeah, that's the compromise.

20:47:15 <Rath> That was the compromise owen proposed, Rush

20:47:18 <Rush> oh

20:47:23 <Rush> k

20:47:23 <owen> It was a week vs. no nominations at all.

20:47:26 * D-USA votes nay

20:48:05 <Rush> I change my vote to nay

20:48:10 <Rush> how do I make that purple

20:48:13 <alex> Is Brittany planning on being here?

20:48:18 <K`Tetch> /me says

20:48:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> alex: Brittany is Rath

20:48:28 * Rush says votes nay

20:48:29 <owen> alex: Brittany is Rath

20:48:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> jinx!

20:48:37 <Rush> lol

20:48:37 <alex> thank

20:48:51 <owen> Ergh, counting... People've voted twice, lol.

20:48:52 <Rath> Sorry, in class right now, so I'm a bit slow

20:49:14 <Rath> I'm going to go ahead and vote nay as well.

20:49:16 <D-USA> no prop

20:49:24 <owen> lol, damn

20:49:38 <D-USA> 3 to 3 right now

20:49:40 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so whats the count?

20:49:41 <owen> So is there no possibility of simple majority, so I can stop counting?

20:49:49 <D-USA> we had 12 people here

20:50:07 <owen> RESTART THE VOTE

20:50:12 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yes

20:50:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> please

20:50:15 <owen> Everyone's switched, this is obnoxious.

20:50:19 <TeamColtra> There is an official motion to restart a vote, but I don't rembmer what its called

20:50:29 * Rush votes nay

20:50:30 <TeamColtra> Everyone... only vote once.. and please no sidebar conversations

20:50:38 * D-USA votes nay

20:50:44 * TeamColtra votes affirmative

20:50:47 * owen votes aye

20:50:50 <Rath> Nay

20:50:55 * K`Tetch votes NAY

20:50:57 * alex votes Nay

20:51:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye

20:51:45 <Haplo> abstain

20:51:51 <Rath> Haplo Pugnax QuazarGuy WebGuest65

20:51:55 <Rath> lul, sorry Haplo xD

20:52:06 * WebGuest65 votes aye.

20:52:24 <Rath> 4 aye, 5 nay, 1 abstain

20:52:29 <TeamColtra> Did WebGuest65 identify?

20:52:32 <owen> Pugnax, QuazarGuy could turn it.

20:52:38 <Rath> Dunno

20:52:43 <WebGuest65> I believe so.

20:52:44 <K`Tetch> [20:15.36] <WebGuest65> Benjamin Brumer, California

20:52:56 <Haplo> Aside: http://pirate-party.us/content/contact is now updated

20:53:01 <K`Tetch> owen - its veto consensus, not majority rules

20:53:20 <QuazarGuy> aye

20:53:40 <K`Tetch> http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Veto_Consensus_Method

20:53:44 <Rath> Pugnax ?

20:53:45 <TeamColtra> 4 aye, 5 nay, 1 abstain

20:53:49 <Haplo> 5-5-1...

20:54:26 <Haplo> doesn't that mean the vote is thrown out and you'd have to find a new compromise

20:54:32 <Rath> Yep

20:54:38 <D-USA> let's try this one

20:54:41 * D-USA makes a motion to hold elections on February 16th, meaning people have until the 9th of february to nominate. If offices are unopposed by the deadline, the candidate shall be declared the winner and hold said office effective February 10th

20:54:52 * K`Tetch votes AYE

20:54:56 * owen votes aye

20:55:01 * Rath votes aye

20:55:01 * WebGuest65 votes aye

20:55:02 * D-USA votes aye

20:55:09 * alex votes aye

20:55:11 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye

20:55:12 * Haplo votes aye

20:55:14 * Rush aye

20:55:16 <QuazarGuy> aye

20:55:24 <Haplo> 10-0, much better

20:55:27 <Rath> 10

20:55:28 <D-USA> what a touching moment

20:55:34 <owen> lol, D-USA

20:55:35 <Rath> Motion passed

20:55:36 <Rath> Go D-USA

20:55:38 <Rath> Ok

20:55:40 <Rath> Item 2

20:55:46 <Rush> isn't that what you do all the time anyway, D-USA?

20:55:48 <TeamColtra> nay

20:55:53 <TeamColtra> lol but that didn't matter :P

20:55:54 <Haplo> 10-1

20:55:59 <owen> TeamColtra, you're a brave man

20:56:00 <Rath> Haha

20:56:00 <Rath> Ok

20:56:02 <Rath> Discuss possible legal actions to take against former administrator Ryan Martin for failure to turn over administration of the party to Brittany Phelps.

20:56:41 <K`Tetch> ok, here there are possibilities

20:56:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Well 1) do we have any legal counsel to do such a thing and 2) will a letter from an attorney rather than formal charges from the outset be sufficient enough?

20:57:03 <K`Tetch> as he has access to a company bank account (ie ours) and the paypal, he's doing so fradulently

20:57:10 <Rush> (wouldn't it be for failure to turn over things to me so I could turn them over to you?)

20:57:13 <K`Tetch> thus it's wirefraud

20:57:41 <Rush> true

20:57:54 <K`Tetch> he has access to emails submitted to the site (or did until today) and financial info, via the paypal, that's data protection

20:57:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> K'Tech: making accusations of breaking the law in a formal meeting counts as libel and slander is such a charge is not the case

20:58:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> use words like "possible".....so "possible wirefraud

20:58:22 <K`Tetch> are you saying he doesn't have access to the paypal and bank account?

20:58:44 <Haplo> I am all for any legal action

20:58:44 <Rush> he still has access to emails, doesn't he still have admin account control?

20:58:46 <Haplo> but I gotta go

20:58:52 <Rath> Later Haplo

20:59:04 <Haplo> no owen got rid of his website access I think

20:59:07 -!- Haplo is now known as Haplo|Away

20:59:20 <K`Tetch> website access is gone, but he still has server access, and email account access

20:59:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> no, i'm just saying that i'm not a lawyer and you're not a lawyer and making accusations in a meeting of a political non-profit organization that can be read publicly and will be seen as the "minutes" for our organization can be used as evidence

20:59:33 <Rath> Ok, so website access down, server, financial, and everything else to go

20:59:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so I think we should be safe

21:00:05 <K`Tetch> if he belives he could make a libel charge stick, I'd be glad to see him try

21:00:15 <QuazarGuy> Is it possible to remove his access?

21:00:22 <Rath> For the website

21:00:25 <D-USA> his voice mail still states "Administrator of the USPP", so we have a possible case of fraud and misrepresentation?

21:00:30 <owen> QuazarGuy: already have, from the website.

21:00:34 <Rath> But he's the only one with access to everything else I'm waiting for access to

21:00:35 <Rath> Him or Bethany

21:00:52 <K`Tetch> owen - but he could just lock you out via the server itself, and reinstate access

21:01:04 <owen> K`Tetch, just state that you're obviously not 100% sure he's broken the law, and let's move on.

21:01:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well, just to be safe KTech, you are somebody who has a possible situation that could make it worse

21:01:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> just lookin out for ya

21:01:10 <QuazarGuy> I mean is it possible to transfer access without his authority for those other things?

21:01:14 <TeamColtra> Yeah, he still has MySQL access, and he can also IP ban on a server level

21:02:15 <K`Tetch> if we can gain access to the IRS, and update htat, it makes things stronger for regaining host access through the host

21:02:59 <QuazarGuy> Internal Revenue Service?

21:03:00 <K`Tetch> ok, I'm not 100% sure if he was breaking the la

21:03:02 <K`Tetch> yes

21:03:16 <owen> I'd like to move to table the proposal until the next meeting.

21:03:16 <Rush> how will the IRS do that

21:03:17 <K`Tetch> but I have a strong belief that he is

21:03:27 <owen> We don't know if we're in a position to take action, or even if it will be necessary.

21:03:36 <D-USA> well, I think it is necessary

21:03:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> "D-USA: his voice mail still states "Administrator of the USPP", so we have a possible case of fraud and misrepresentation?" yeah possibly, i'll talk to someone about it

21:03:37 <TeamColtra> I would also like to make a note that due to his non-cooperation, if you use a dictionary word as a password on your account... please update it to something secure, though I don't feel that he would do anything with our information, the risk is there and any time an outside party has access to the passwords of the party I feel that its a nessesary reminder

21:03:46 <owen> But let's not reject the option outright, it's just too early to say.

21:03:57 <K`Tetch> rush - updating our filings with the IRS means that the government recognises the changes, and that if we make a false statement to them, we risk criminal actions

21:04:12 <Rush> k

21:04:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Btw, about our tax status

21:04:26 <owen> Any objections to tabling it?

21:04:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we don't need to hire a CPA to be on staff

21:04:31 <K`Tetch> yes, I object

21:04:38 <Rath> As do I

21:04:39 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I object as well

21:04:43 <D-USA> same here

21:04:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> i'm gonna finish now lol

21:04:45 <K`Tetch> we've been going around this for a month oen, he's had time to do it

21:04:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I met with a CPA today

21:05:08 <Rath> Kidd, please hold off until later.

21:05:15 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and he told me that we don't make enough to require an on-staff CPA 24/7

21:05:24 <QuazarGuy> CPA?

21:05:32 <K`Tetch> accountant

21:05:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> however, for a small fee, a CPA can review our taxes and give us advice and updates on it

21:05:43 <Rush> Certified Public Accountant

21:05:50 <QuazarGuy> ok

21:05:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ah, yeah, sorry Quazar

21:06:00 <Rath> Guys, we're in a meeting. Let's not go off-topic.

21:06:04 <Rath> Back to the point.

21:06:05 <Rath> Ryan

21:06:07 <owen> on topic -

21:06:08 <K`Tetch> well, without access to our bank accont and paypal, we don't know the fiancial situation to worry about taxes

21:06:19 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> true, so that goes back to Ryan

21:06:20 <K`Tetch> which brings us back to the charges situation

21:06:36 <owen> Do we actually *know* what charges could be made against him?

21:06:43 <QuazarGuy> But before we can press charges we have to update the IRS

21:06:47 <TeamColtra> owen, no, we are just discussing

21:06:52 <K`Tetch> that would be up to the FBI as to what they actually charge him with

21:06:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I propose that giving a smaller amount of money to have an attorney send a formal letter about possible legal action will be effective

21:06:58 <owen> And by know, I mean know because we obtained legal advice?

21:07:04 <K`Tetch> a smaller amount? smaller than what?

21:07:19 <K`Tetch> does it cost now to report a crim to the FBI?

21:07:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well, retainer for lawyers go from $2K and up for organizations

21:07:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well no, butr civil charges

21:07:34 <K`Tetch> we're not talking about a civil lawsuit

21:07:37 <K`Tetch> charges, not a suit

21:07:39 <owen> I don't see how we can do a thing without knowing what we can and can't do.

21:07:41 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> if not found to be criminal

21:07:49 <K`Tetch> a civil suit is not what's being discussed

21:07:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> owen: exactly my point!

21:07:59 <D-USA> we are talking about charges, not lawsuits

21:08:15 <K`Tetch> owen, it's simple, he's got control of an IRS-registered organisation, after being fired from his position of responsibility

21:08:19 <owen> If we're talking about a criminal investigation, then that's probably different.

21:08:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ok well if we have reason to believe a crime was committed we need to call in the authorities now

21:08:37 <K`Tetch> thats you CaPtAiN_KiDd, thats the point

21:08:48 <owen> Rath, thoughts?

21:08:56 <K`Tetch> CHARGES = criminal, lawsuit = civil

21:08:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well then call the FBI

21:09:11 <Rath> Sorry, owen, class

21:09:21 <Rath> I'm not 100% of what our options are.

21:09:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Our options are to report a possible felony

21:09:36 <owen> * Talk to a lawery

21:09:40 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> other option is...well...none

21:09:41 <owen> *laywer

21:09:45 <Rath> I think we need to talk to a lawyer and see what they suggest

21:09:46 <owen> *lawyer

21:09:47 <K`Tetch> thre is a recent parallel case - the San Fran wifi admin case

21:09:48 <Rath> And then go from there.

21:09:51 <owen> Or

21:09:55 <owen> * call the FBI

21:09:58 <alex> I suggest we talk to a lawyer.

21:10:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah, you don't call a lawyer when somebody breaks into your car do you?

21:10:25 <D-USA> the only lawyer issue is that we don't even have access to the money from Ryan, which we need to hire a lawyer to talk about Ryan

21:10:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well you can ask the FBI to look into it

21:10:31 <D-USA> it's an infinite loop

21:10:32 <TeamColtra> What if we call the FBI, and see what they say? I mean you don't always have to know the exact wording just say whats happening

21:10:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> it's not like dialing 911

21:10:51 <TeamColtra> I mean if you are getting mugged you don't say "I THINK I WAS JUST ASSULTED AND BATTERED"

21:10:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra: yup, you can call the FBI and tell them

21:11:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> "ask" them

21:11:12 <K`Tetch> talk to them

21:11:20 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah

21:11:23 <D-USA> That's the main purpose of adding it to the agenda. To see if the party is willing to unite and tell Ryan that we are open to use "every" option we have

21:11:27 <TeamColtra> You call them and say you got mugged, I am sure it works the same way with the FBI, just tell them whats going on, and they will know if its illegal or not

21:11:32 <K`Tetch> its certainly 'reasonable suspicion of a crime'

21:12:00 <K`Tetch> because why else would he not hand over the paypal account, unless it's because he wants the money

21:12:01 <TeamColtra> I feel that Rath should make a call to the FBI within 24 hours before we start losing our window

21:12:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra is making the best point here (my point also) that you can call the FBI about this

21:12:07 <alex> I still think a lawyer would know how best to proceed. It would be best to let the lawyer contact FBI.

21:12:11 <D-USA> we are not voting on calling the FBI right now, we are voting to see if we agree that all options need to be on the table

21:12:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> it ain't like dialing 911

21:12:31 <K`Tetch> alex - lawyers don't report crimes

21:12:38 <owen> D-USA, sure.

21:12:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> from what I understand the FBI dpoesn't mind people calling to report a possible occourence of a felony

21:12:43 <K`Tetch> you hire a lawyer yourself for a private prosecutoin, or a civil action

21:12:43 <TeamColtra> D-USA, I disagree, I think we all agree or a majority of us agree that we need to do something

21:12:47 <TeamColtra> if not lets vote on it

21:12:47 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> kinda like their "thing" ya know? :-P

21:12:51 <TeamColtra> get that part out of the way

21:12:54 <Rush> the fbi has a link on their site to report a crime

21:13:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rush Saves The Day!

21:13:09 <K`Tetch> it's also part of our party 'creed' to support accountability

21:13:10 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> (again)

21:13:14 <Rush> https://tips.fbi.gov/

21:13:18 <D-USA> it just let's Ryan know that the party agrees to let Rath proceed, and let's Ryan now we are not messing around

21:13:21 <K`Tetch> so we need to show it, including holding ryan accountable to his actions

21:13:39 <TeamColtra> D-USA, we have already sent him official messages saying that we are willing to do anything

21:13:42 <K`Tetch> yeah, and it's not just 'K`TEtch driving it'

21:13:56 <Rush> http://phoenix.fbi.gov/

21:14:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> VOTE! All in favor of contacting the proper authorities about the possible occourence of a crime by a former member?

21:14:14 <TeamColtra> Would it be phoenix or would it be atlanta?

21:14:17 * Pugnax votes aye

21:14:25 <D-USA> hold up a minute, let's give this some proper phrasing

21:14:33 <Rush> well, Phoenix is Rath's locality

21:14:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> agreed D-USA

21:14:36 <D-USA> jsut to make it clear that not all members are picking up the phone now

21:14:41 <TeamColtra> Rush, but Atlanta would be his

21:14:48 * Rath moves to support a proposal that we as a party are willing and determined to pursue all possible, legal means against Ryan Jason Martin in order to retrieve all party documents, passwords, etc., in his possession, to be carried out by the Party's administrator, Brittany Phelps

21:14:49 <D-USA> well, the FBI covers every state

21:14:50 <K`Tetch> TeamColtra - doesn't matter

21:15:01 <Rath> Yes, I live in Phoenix

21:15:13 <K`Tetch> as rath is the administrator, thats the party's head office

21:15:19 <K`Tetch> thats where the investigation will start

21:15:28 <K`Tetch> and if need be, will invovle the atlanta office

21:15:29 <TeamColtra> Okay

21:15:31 * D-USA seconds rath's proposal

21:15:40 * Rush votes aye

21:15:44 * TeamColtra votes in favor

21:15:45 * K`Tetch votes aye on the proposal

21:15:46 * D-USA votes aye

21:15:49 * Rath votes aye

21:15:50 * Pugnax votes aye

21:15:53 <QuazarGuy> aye

21:15:54 * alex votes aye

21:15:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye

21:16:02 <TeamColtra> Ayes have it

21:16:03 <Rath> 9-0

21:16:03 * WebGuest65 abstains.

21:16:18 <owen> abstain.

21:16:19 <TeamColtra> Now, lets discuss what we are going to do

21:16:20 <D-USA> I also think that Rath should handle it, lol

21:16:39 <K`Tetch> RAth and D-USA are currently the only legal represenatives of the party

21:16:41 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol yeah, make her do it! :-P

21:16:42 <TeamColtra> we have two options... but ones not really an option... We have criminal (which is what this is) and we need rath to contact FBI, or Civil and we need an attourny

21:17:13 <Rath> I will contact the FBI tomorrow morning?

21:17:16 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> We need an attorney, but not for this unless he contests it I think

21:17:22 <TeamColtra> All in favor of supporting Rath calling the FBI and filing a formal complaint say aye.

21:17:28 <D-USA> well, if he contests it he would be contesting against the FBI, not us

21:17:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye

21:17:33 <TeamColtra> Aye

21:17:39 <owen> I think email would be better, personally.

21:17:42 <owen> but contact in some way, aye.

21:17:52 <Rush> email is too easy to "lose"

21:17:57 <Rath> Yeah, something.

21:17:59 <owen> Either way.

21:18:00 <owen> aye.

21:18:07 <Pugnax> aye

21:18:21 <WebGuest65> aye

21:18:28 <Rush> aye

21:18:44 <D-USA> aye

21:18:47 <Rath> Aye

21:19:13 <QuazarGuy> aye

21:19:18 <alex> Aye

21:19:22 <Rath> Alright. So, motion passed

21:19:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Woot!

21:19:34 <Rath> Any other things for this topic, or can we move on to three?

21:19:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Related to above - discuss 5-year ban on Mr Martin, for actions contrary to the interests of the party.

21:19:41 <Rath> Related to the last - discuss 5-year ban on Mr Martin, for actions contrary to the interests of the party.

21:19:45 <owen> Any I'm up for moving on.

21:19:49 <owen> *I'm

21:19:50 <Rath> Aww, way to steal my thunder, Kidd xP

21:20:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol sorry sorry my bad!

21:20:09 <K`Tetch> ok my proposal

21:20:10 <owen> Again, I think this is premature.

21:20:12 <Rath> No worries =)

21:20:46 <TeamColtra> I vote against this

21:20:49 <K`Tetch> since he has acting against the party (neccesitating the removal from office) and then again, by his actions afterwards, he has shown no dsire to help or support the party

21:20:57 <QuazarGuy> We should at least get our access back first

21:21:08 <K`Tetch> and thus should be prevented from even holding the rank of member

21:21:31 <owen> This is something that should be done when the situation surrounding him is more stable...

21:21:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> QuazarGuy: well he isn't giving it to us despite requests by the Admin

21:21:31 <Rath> I don't think getting into the practice of banning people from membership is a good idea.

21:21:45 <owen> I don't see a need for a vote now, though.

21:21:48 <Pugnax> I'm not sure lifetime bans are a good idea

21:21:49 <K`Tetch> these are exceptional circumstances

21:21:53 <K`Tetch> not lifetime, 5 year

21:22:06 <Rath> Perhaps banning them from elected office, but I think that after people know about what's gone on, there's an unlikely chance that he'll be elected.

21:22:10 <QuazarGuy> perhaps just a ban from office

21:22:13 <Pugnax> "prevention from becoming a member" seems like liftetime, unless there is indeed a clock on it

21:22:15 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Yeah, i'm gonna say that we just take the, ya know, calling the FBI thing as a general consensus that we don't want him in the party

21:22:15 <Pugnax> lifetime*

21:22:16 <K`Tetch> and it's pretty hard to have done more to 'feck' everything up

21:22:22 <TeamColtra> I would support a ban from office if anything

21:22:29 <TeamColtra> but I don't think thats really required either

21:22:48 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> banning from office at least yeah

21:22:49 <alex> I don't support banning him.

21:22:56 <owen> I'm for tabling this.

21:22:57 <TeamColtra> nor do I

21:23:01 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> since right now all you need is an account at the site to vote

21:23:02 <TeamColtra> I object

21:23:03 <QuazarGuy> we'll always accept his money

21:23:04 * Rath moves to table this topic, for this meeting, at very least.

21:23:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> that's safe

21:23:13 * Rush votes aye

21:23:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye

21:23:17 <D-USA> do we have a provision for bannign in the constitution, officer or otherwise?

21:23:20 <K`Tetch> ok, table for a month?

21:23:20 * owen votes aye

21:23:20 <Rath> I need a second, first xP

21:23:24 <Rath> Not that I know of, D-USA

21:23:25 <TeamColtra> lol I was going to say

21:23:28 * Pugnax abstains

21:23:34 * Rush seconds the motion

21:23:36 <TeamColtra> we don't even ahve a second, but then again, we are not using roberts rules

21:23:37 <QuazarGuy> abstain

21:23:39 <TeamColtra> so it doesn't matter :P

21:23:52 <owen> http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Veto_Consensus_Method Is the rules we're going by, AFAIK

21:24:15 <TeamColtra> I respectfully widthdraw my objection

21:24:24 <TeamColtra> and also vote in favor of tabling this until later

21:24:37 <K`Tetch> ok, table for a month then?

21:24:39 * Rath votes aye

21:24:41 <owen> aye

21:24:43 <TeamColtra> aye

21:24:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye

21:24:52 <K`Tetch> aye on table for a month

21:25:05 <WebGuest65> aye

21:25:24 <QuazarGuy> abstain

21:25:25 * alex votes aye

21:25:33 <Rath> The ayes have it.

21:25:34 * D-USA votes aye

21:25:38 * Pugnax abstains

21:25:41 <TeamColtra> lol someone says aye and everyone just starts voting half the people not even sure what they are voting on ;)

21:25:56 <Rath> 9-0-2

21:26:05 * Rush aye

21:26:06 <owen> TeamColtra: I'm pretty damn sure that I just voted for tabling it for a month. :-P

21:26:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra: assumptions sir, we are smarter than we...uh....vote?

21:26:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :-P

21:26:24 <TeamColtra> owen, no you voted to give me your left kidney

21:26:29 <TeamColtra> aye

21:26:30 <TeamColtra> ;)

21:26:36 <D-USA> I call dips on his right kidney

21:26:37 <Rath> It wasn't specified when I motioned and Rush seconded. If people don't want it back up, don't suggest it for the agenda

21:26:38 <Rath> Ok

21:26:42 <Rath> On to topic 4

21:26:54 <Rath> Make sure people know that we aren't the PPUS, but rather the USPP. A lot of people have been erroneously using the PPUS acronym lately.

21:26:55 <owen> What IS our official acronym?

21:26:57 <Rath> wat

21:27:00 <Rath> Ok

21:27:05 <Rath> This goes back to the tax status

21:27:06 <Rush> what??

21:27:11 <Rath> The original entity was PPUS

21:27:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Tax status issue

21:27:17 <Rath> But people lost the passwords and created the USPP

21:27:24 <K`Tetch> not lost it, never had it

21:27:25 <owen> So now it _is_ USPP

21:27:25 <Rath> One of my projects is to merge the two

21:27:26 <Rush> I have always said PPUS

21:27:28 <Rath> Ah, ok

21:27:34 <Rath> My understanding was that it was lost

21:27:35 <Rath> Anyways

21:27:41 <Rath> The IRS knows us as the USPP

21:27:43 <owen> PPUS, USPP.

21:27:44 <K`Tetch> we can't merge, because we couldn't obtain the passwords

21:27:45 <Rush> I mean the website is Pirate-Party.US, PPUS

21:27:48 <owen> Tomato, tomato.

21:28:00 <K`Tetch> iirc, Ray's address was the listed mail address, but he lost his home before he got the password

21:28:07 <D-USA> are we the WWWPPUS

21:28:08 <K`Tetch> IRS mail can't be forwarded (security)

21:28:16 <Rath> Yes, that's the story I've heard, K'tetch.

21:28:18 <K`Tetch> and we can't change the address, without the password

21:28:25 <Rath> So right now, technically, we are the USPP

21:28:32 <K`Tetch> we are both

21:28:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ugh

21:28:39 <K`Tetch> PPUS should be linnked in the tax flings

21:28:42 <owen> I don't really care what people call us.

21:28:44 <K`Tetch> filing

21:28:47 <Rush> I actually considered chewing my table right now

21:28:49 <K`Tetch> but USPP is fine

21:28:52 <alex> I don't like PPUS.

21:28:52 <Rath> I believe it is.

21:29:01 <owen> Who added that? :-P

21:29:02 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well it's not so much what people call us more than it is a legal issue \

21:29:08 <TeamColtra> Once again, if we get someone who knows accounting and such, they probably know how to get this taken care of

21:29:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> i think

21:29:16 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> CPA!

21:29:18 <owen> Legally we ARE the USPP, yes?

21:29:29 <TeamColtra> I am sure we are not the first person in IRS history to not get their password

21:29:41 <TeamColtra> or for the person who was to get a password to have moved/lost their home/etc before they got it

21:29:42 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Want me to get a quote before we get the tax papers from Ryan?

21:30:00 <TeamColtra> <owen> Legally we ARE the USPP, yes? <-- legally both

21:30:01 <owen> Who put this in the agenda?

21:30:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I just need someone who knows ALL the details about the tax situation to lay it out in an email

21:30:20 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - I just laid it out as best I know

21:30:25 <K`Tetch> the onyl one who might know any better is Ray

21:30:32 <K`Tetch> and he's not exactly easy to contact

21:30:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Ok, so we don't know what we are

21:30:46 <owen> Oh, Haplo did.

21:30:47 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> because only Ryan knows

21:30:53 <owen> I believe.

21:31:02 <owen> And Haplo is... away.

21:31:09 <owen> Haplo|Away

21:31:09 <K`Tetch> http://forms.irs.gov/politicalOrgsSearch/search/Print.action?formId=47661&formType=E71 is our latest filing

21:31:14 <K`Tetch> but 14a doesn't list the association

21:31:43 <K`Tetch> this one, filed by glenn in october, does - http://forms.irs.gov/politicalOrgsSearch/search/Print.action?formId=46907&formType=E71

21:31:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Perfect KTech!

21:31:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> give me all of the links you have then

21:32:06 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I can bring it to the guy when I get paid on Friday

21:32:07 <K`Tetch> I already deailed how to find them

21:32:12 <owen> Back on topic -

21:32:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we are on topic

21:32:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> h/o one sec

21:32:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Ok, KTech, please refresh my memory

21:32:47 <K`Tetch> done in pm

21:32:47 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> with links, with all that type of tax stuff

21:32:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ah ok

21:33:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> then meeting continue i guess

21:33:30 <Rath> Ok, so.. is there anything we really need to vote on for this topic?

21:33:34 <K`Tetch> no

21:33:36 <Rath> Or just move on to five?

21:33:37 <owen> I move to reject this proposal. I don't really mind whether random people call us PPUS or USPP.

21:33:45 <K`Tetch> there has been no proposal

21:34:01 <Rath> Make sure people know that we aren't the PPUS, but rather the USPP. A lot of people have been erroneously using the PPUS acronym lately.

21:34:02 <owen> I thought "Make sure people know that we aren't the PPUS, but rather the USPP"

21:34:07 <owen> constituted one...

21:34:08 <Rath> There's nothing actually proposed

21:34:09 <Rush> it's not a proposal, it's a legal thing

21:34:13 <K`Tetch> legally, uspp is correct

21:34:27 <owen> Haplo put it there, and I think he was talking about a semantic thing.

21:34:31 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, legally both are correct no?

21:34:31 <owen> Not the legal situation.

21:34:35 <owen> Just what random people call us.

21:34:40 -!- alex_mobile!~user@96B65365.90C74007.331FCC18.IP has joined #meeting

21:34:41 <K`Tetch> yes, sorta, TeamColtra

21:34:45 <TeamColtra> Name of organization Employer identification number

21:34:46 <TeamColtra> United States Pirate Party 27 - 0331986

21:34:50 <K`Tetch> but uspp is 'more' correct

21:34:53 <owen> United States Pirate Party.

21:34:53 -!- Pugnax is now known as Pugnax|afk

21:34:54 <owen> USPP.

21:35:04 <owen> DOn't really care much, seriously. Let's move on.

21:35:28 <Rath> Let's go ahead and move on that, all?

21:35:34 <TeamColtra> owen, if this is a legal matter... then we can't really skip it

21:35:40 <owen> TeamColtra, it's NOT

21:35:45 <owen> "Make sure people know that we aren't the PPUS, but rather the USPP. A lot of people have been erroneously using the PPUS acronym lately.

21:35:47 <owen> "

21:35:53 <D-USA> If all our filling says USPP, then we need to use USPP

21:35:53 <owen> He's talking about random people calling us that!

21:35:59 <Rath> There's not much we can do right now anyways

21:36:12 <TeamColtra> owen, just because its said wrong on the meeting points

21:36:17 <TeamColtra> doesn't mean its not an important issue

21:36:25 <owen> Rath, please just veto this, it's irrelevant.

21:36:41 <owen> Or somebody just move to tell everyone to say USPP from now on.

21:36:53 <D-USA> Owen, it is the same as if people are running around calling ourselves the APP

21:36:54 <owen> Haplo's away, and we can't read his mind, but I think that was his intent.

21:36:56 <D-USA> it's the wrong name

21:37:03 -!- QuazarGuy!~QuazarGuy@6E3597CB.159E13A.8A0847BF.IP has quit: (Quit: QuazarGuy)

21:37:04 <Rath> We can say we're the USPP until the cows come home, but we also have a filing with the IRS under the PPUS, which we have no ability to fix at the moment.

21:37:22 <D-USA> The only filing "we" have access to is the USPP one AFAIK

21:37:25 <owen> Which is a problem that isn't the same as the one on the agenda.

21:37:35 <Rath> We don't even have access to that right now :|

21:37:42 <Rush> Until Ryan hands the things over, we can't change anything

21:37:44 -!- alex_mobile!~user@96B65365.90C74007.331FCC18.IP has quit: (Ping timeout)

21:37:49 <Rush> we're a political party in exile

21:37:55 <TeamColtra> Okay so we will table this until next time?

21:37:57 <D-USA> Rath is the Dalai Rathma

21:37:58 * owen proposes to encourage party members and officers to use the term USPP

21:38:07 <Rath> lul

21:38:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Wait, Ryan filed under the name PPUS?

21:38:09 <owen> Let's just vote and move on

21:38:09 <Rath> Seconded

21:38:15 * owen votes AYE

21:38:15 <K`Tetch> no CaPtAiN_KiDd

21:38:22 <TeamColtra> owen, your missing the point

21:38:23 <K`Tetch> Ray filed under that name 3 years ago

21:38:31 * Rush votes aye

21:38:38 <owen> TeamColtra: No, I'm not, you're misreading the agenda, lol

21:38:43 <K`Tetch> Glenn filed under the new name

21:38:44 <TeamColtra> The agenda is worded wrong

21:38:53 <owen> You didn't write it, did you?

21:39:02 <owen> I don't think Haplo was writing about our tax status,

21:39:10 <TeamColtra> Fine I will put the proper wording on next months agenda

21:39:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Ok, so both tax forms I just saw have been filed already right?

21:39:15 <owen> I think someone wrote PPUS on pirate-party.us and it bugged him!

21:39:15 * D-USA votes aye on moving that members and officers use the proper USPP

21:39:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and the IRS accepted it?

21:39:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye

21:39:27 <Rath> Folks, we've got a vote on the table. Please hold conversations

21:39:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> in PM KTech

21:39:42 <WebGuest65> aye

21:40:01 <Rath> Aye

21:40:09 * alex votes aye

21:40:10 <Rush> aye

21:40:17 <Rath> 7, I think?

21:40:21 <owen> Okay, is that through?

21:40:23 <owen> Sure.

21:40:26 <Rath> Yes

21:40:27 <K`Tetch> aye

21:40:29 <owen> Okay, everybody use USPP from now on. :-P

21:40:37 <owen> There, you've been encouraged. Next?

21:40:39 <Rath> K

21:40:44 <Rath> Last item

21:40:44 <Rath> Consideration of using an amended version of Roberts Rules of Order for USPP meetings.

21:40:55 <owen> TeamColtra, btw, we can talk about the IRS situation after the agenda's finished.

21:40:56 <Rath> The amended version is http://pirate-party.us/content/proposal-roberts-rules

21:41:02 <owen> I just want to get through it first.

21:41:12 <Rath> Yes, please talk about it to your heart's content afterwards

21:41:21 <D-USA> I think RRO can be consolidated with the current practice of veto-consensus

21:41:23 <Rath> I'm just trying to get this finished so I can pay attention to class xP

21:41:26 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Now I have to change my clan tag in Call of Duty MW2

21:41:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> great :-P

21:41:53 <D-USA> Let me make a quick proposal, then talk about it:

21:42:07 <D-USA> here are my thoughts:

21:42:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> "amended" Robert's Rules without doing the amendments today in one shot but rather as we go along is what I propose for this

21:42:48 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, I support this

21:42:49 <TeamColtra> :D

21:43:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> sweet :-)

21:43:21 <D-USA> we need to have some way to keep order during the meetings

21:43:29 <Rath> Yeah

21:43:31 <D-USA> people are always talking over each other, randomly calling for votes

21:43:40 <Rath> 'Cause you lot are a rambunctious group xD

21:43:46 <D-USA> we need to have an open meeting where everyone can talk, but we need to organize it better as well

21:43:56 <Rush> ventrillo

21:43:59 <TeamColtra> http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Roberts_Rules_of_Order

21:44:09 <TeamColtra> This was my full proposal

21:44:14 <TeamColtra> for people who would like to read it over

21:44:16 <Rush> or we could meet in CoD

21:44:25 <owen> No voice, dear god!

21:44:29 <owen> Text chat, PLEASE

21:44:35 <owen> For formal meetings, at least.

21:44:43 <D-USA> I like the idea of giving everybody voice, but making it a moderated room, so we have the option of taking voice away if needed

21:44:56 <TeamColtra> ;) I can't stand CaPtAiN_KiDd as it is... let alone hearing him talk

21:45:11 <D-USA> I don't want to ban people during meetings. If we can take away voice, that person can at least still see the meeting

21:45:12 <owen> Stay classy, TeamColtra...

21:45:18 <Rush> I agree Coltra

21:45:31 <Rush> sorry to say it Kidd, but you talk at 90 miles a minute

21:45:37 <Rath> srsly

21:45:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol sorry

21:45:46 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> dude, 1650 LSAT

21:45:49 <K`Tetch> the way the ppi does their meetings is the board have voice, and the room is moderated, as people request to speak, they're voiced

21:45:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> they train me that way

21:46:01 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, that was my idea

21:46:14 <TeamColtra> only I was thinking of giving everyone voice unless they talk out of turn

21:46:26 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I can slow down for formal meetings, trust me, but when gettin gthings done like party affairs outside of meetings,

21:46:27 <Rush> Kidd, 1650 is not an LSAT score

21:46:31 <D-USA> If we stay with everybody having voice, we need to make sure that only the officers move between topics in the agenda, only officers call votes, and officers count votes

21:46:32 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I talk fast

21:46:36 <Rush> I believe 180 is the highest

21:46:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> friggin SAT

21:46:50 <Rath> It is, Rush

21:46:52 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I'm taking a GRE

21:46:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> not an LSAT anymore

21:47:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I get the numbers mixed up

21:47:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and GRE i think is 1000

21:47:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> 165

21:47:16 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> sorry

21:47:16 <Rath> Ok

21:47:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol

21:47:17 <Rath> So

21:47:20 <Rush> my LSAT score was 144

21:47:20 <Rath> Back to RRO

21:47:30 <D-USA> there is a great example of needing to stay on topic, lol

21:47:34 <Rath> Yes

21:47:36 <Rath> Exactly

21:47:45 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rush: get it over 155 and go for it dude :-)

21:47:49 <Rath> You people and your extraneous conversations

21:47:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> k

21:47:54 -!- alex is now known as alex|away

21:47:54 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> order

21:47:56 <TeamColtra> I move to pass the text that is on http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Roberts_Rules_of_Order

21:47:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> agenda

21:47:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lets go

21:48:02 <Rath> Seconded

21:48:07 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> third

21:48:13 <D-USA> which part?

21:48:14 <TeamColtra> I vote AYE

21:48:29 <Rath> All of it, I assume?

21:48:32 <K`Tetch> does the RRO conflict with the veto-consensus?

21:48:33 <TeamColtra> D-USA, the text in its fullness

21:48:33 <D-USA> the original proposal, or with all commends?

21:48:46 <D-USA> I don't think it voild K`Tetch

21:48:56 <D-USA> it would just make the veto-consensus more orderly

21:49:09 <K`Tetch> seems everything after 2 would

21:49:24 <K`Tetch> the commit, table indefinitely

21:49:25 <K`Tetch> etc

21:50:00 <D-USA> how about this: Let's make a formal, full written proposal, consolidating RRO with veto-consensus, present it at the beginning of the next meeting, and vote on it

21:50:12 <K`Tetch> ok

21:50:15 <owen> Sounds good.

21:50:16 <Rath> I'd be cool with that.

21:50:30 <Rath> Who would be responsible for this?

21:50:31 <owen> K`Tetch and TeamColtra, can you guys do that?

21:50:32 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> word

21:50:32 <D-USA> by making it first in the next meeting, it can then be used after/if it passes

21:50:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> brilliant!

21:50:44 <owen> You seem the most knowledgable about the respective systems.

21:51:00 <D-USA> I can work with Coltra and K`Tetch as the factions of RRO and VC

21:51:30 <Rush> my RRO book just came in yesterday, I've not had a chance to peruse it

21:51:31 <D-USA> K`Tetch knows VC very well, Coltra knows RRO well, and I can make them get along, lol

21:51:46 <owen> Alright, you three do that for the next meeting.

21:51:51 <Rath> K'Tetch, TeamColtra are you both up for that?

21:52:03 -!- Pugnax|afk is now known as Pugnax

21:52:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> maybe a channel for them.....and others?

21:52:10 <owen> wb, Pugnax

21:52:14 <Pugnax> Danke

21:52:20 <Pugnax> thank you

21:52:39 <TeamColtra> I can do that

21:52:45 <TeamColtra> We don't need a channe;

21:52:47 <Rush> dich welkommen

21:52:47 <TeamColtra> just work on the wiki

21:52:58 <TeamColtra> but I think that RRO can over rule VC

21:52:59 <D-USA> Bitte is the correct term Rush

21:53:01 <TeamColtra> and still work just fine

21:53:03 <Rush> oops

21:53:04 <Rath> K'Tetch

21:53:06 <TeamColtra> its like using GNOME instead of KDE

21:53:09 <Rush> Ihre papire, bitte

21:53:16 <Pugnax> Ausweise?

21:53:20 <K`Tetch> ok

21:53:33 <Pugnax> ohne -e

21:53:42 <D-USA> Allright, I'll make those two reach an agreement. Us Germans are good at making people see eye-to-eye

21:54:14 <Rush> lol

21:54:16 <Rush> jawhol

21:54:22 <Pugnax> Also what did I miss?

21:54:29 <Rush> (nein)

21:54:33 <D-USA> so we will present a proposal at the next meeting

21:54:40 * Rath moves to create a group tasked to rework Roberts Rules of Order to comply with the veto-consensus system and present it to the Party for the next meeting.

21:54:42 <owen> Pugnax, not sure, lol.

21:54:44 <owen> aye

21:54:52 <Rath> Seconds?

21:54:54 <TeamColtra> I object Rath

21:55:06 <TeamColtra> RR already incorporate most of the ideas of VC

21:55:07 <Rath> Whoops, forgot to name them

21:55:22 <owen> TeamColtra, vote nay and move on

21:55:25 <Rath> Erm. What were you three going to be doing then?

21:55:26 <TeamColtra> Its not a vote

21:55:28 <TeamColtra> she needs a second

21:55:33 <owen> second.

21:55:35 <TeamColtra> and I already objected

21:55:36 <D-USA> We HAVE to use VC

21:55:45 <TeamColtra> D-USA, why? OOC

21:55:46 <owen> It's in the damn constitution, TeamColtra

21:55:47 <D-USA> we cannot ammend or ignore VC

21:56:00 <owen> Read the thing if you haven't!

21:56:02 <TeamColtra> owen, your agression isn't needed

21:56:04 <D-USA> lol

21:56:11 <D-USA> keep it civil guys

21:56:23 <TeamColtra> Okay so we will form RR around VC

21:56:27 <D-USA> but yeah, the VC is in our constitution as the format to be used

21:56:33 <Rath> k

21:56:35 <owen> let's vote, then.

21:56:37 <Rath> So

21:56:38 <TeamColtra> Aye

21:56:39 <Rath> Owen seconded

21:56:41 <D-USA> I personally like it, but I think that RRO can be used to streamline it and make it smooth

21:56:43 <owen> aye

21:56:43 <Rath> All in favor, aye?

21:56:45 <Rath> Aye

21:56:49 <owen> aye

21:56:50 * D-USA votes aye

21:56:55 * alex|away votes aye

21:56:57 <WebGuest65> aye

21:56:57 <K`Tetch> aye

21:57:06 * Pugnax abstains

21:57:19 * Rush votes aye

21:57:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye

21:57:27 <Rath> 8-0-1

21:57:46 <Rath> 9-0-1

21:57:48 <TeamColtra> Anyone who would like to ammend RRO can just do so on http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Roberts_Rules_of_Order

21:57:57 <TeamColtra> please use the talk page to explain what you did

21:58:01 <owen> Okay, so before we adjourn the meeting,

21:58:16 <owen> we ought to schedule the next, so it's non-emergency, because we always forget.

21:58:21 <D-USA> TeamColtra: Thats why I wanted to work with you and K`Tetch as representatives of both options

21:58:27 <TeamColtra> Point of Order :P Its my birthday on the 15th, so everyone should be nice to me ^.^

21:58:28 <D-USA> to present a compromise

21:58:46 <D-USA> at the next meeting

21:58:50 <D-USA> which we need a date for

21:59:04 <Rath> How about the next meeting on the 15th or 17th?

21:59:21 <Rath> Please not a Tuesday or Thursday. Running a meeting during a Philosophy class is insane.

21:59:29 <TeamColtra> lol

21:59:41 <Pugnax> lol, phil

21:59:42 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> We'll call the other Pirates from the back to come out and sing for your birthday then

21:59:44 <TeamColtra> Okay do we want to hold the next meeting on the 2nd?

21:59:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :-P

21:59:56 <D-USA> Monday I am in training for the Fire Department, so I cannot even be online

22:00:00 <Rush> March 2nd?

22:00:01 <D-USA> every monday

22:00:11 <Rath> Ok

22:00:12 <TeamColtra> err the first

22:00:12 <Rath> So

22:00:13 <Rath> The 17th?

22:00:19 <Rath> Wednesday the 17th?

22:00:24 <TeamColtra> How about every other monday?

22:00:34 <Rath> <D-USA>: every monday

22:00:37 <D-USA> I won't be able to make any meetings on monday

22:00:38 <TeamColtra> That would be the 15th

22:00:41 <TeamColtra> 8th

22:00:43 <TeamColtra> 15th

22:00:44 <Rath> We won't have quorum.

22:00:44 <TeamColtra> 22nd

22:00:45 <owen> Bah

22:00:48 <D-USA> lol

22:00:49 <Rath> 17th?

22:00:53 <owen> 9th!

22:00:53 <D-USA> Tuesday is really my best day

22:00:54 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we have to hold a meeting before the election time we voted on

22:00:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> or during

22:01:01 <owen> Every tuesday.

22:01:07 <owen> And especially the 9th, for election reasons.

22:01:07 <D-USA> Wednesdays I might make it, but only from work, so a lot of AFK for me

22:01:13 <Rush> same bat-time, same bat-channel

22:01:18 <Rath> Hm

22:01:29 <D-USA> I have the same problem on Wednesday that Rath has on Tuesday, lol

22:01:34 <Rath> lul

22:01:38 <owen> Meh...

22:01:42 <owen> Thursdays?

22:01:43 <D-USA> I might actually not make it online if I'm at work

22:01:47 <D-USA> saving lives and what not

22:01:47 <Rath> I have a test on the 16th anyways

22:01:57 <Rath> Thursdays are worse =x

22:02:05 <D-USA> Monday and Tuesdays are my only guaranteed days away from work, and monday I spend at the Fire Department

22:02:12 <Rath> Pfft, lives

22:02:29 <D-USA> lol

22:02:29 <Rath> Oy

22:02:31 <TeamColtra> I vote every other monday

22:02:38 <Rath> D-USA won't be here, TC

22:02:45 <Rath> He won't be here on /any/ Monday

22:02:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> We need weekly meetings

22:03:03 <Rush> it used to be every other week

22:03:04 <Rath> We'll get to that point

22:03:11 <Rath> It used to be half past never, too

22:03:12 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, I think every other week should be just fine

22:03:15 <Rath> We're making steps

22:03:29 <owen> Every week

22:03:30 <TeamColtra> We are not doing that much that we NEED weekly meetings

22:03:35 <owen> But we can talk about that later, I have stuff to do

22:03:41 <Rush> as do I

22:03:46 <Rath> As do I.

22:03:47 <Rath> So

22:03:49 <D-USA> I wouldn't mind a meeting every other week, but they would last even longer than they do now

22:03:49 <Rath> Next meeting

22:03:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra: it's fine if we're not doing things like, i dunno, calling the FBI, but for now I think weekly should be held

22:03:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :-)

22:04:05 <owen> Let's go day-by-day, monday on.

22:04:07 <TeamColtra> Okay lets all give a 1st and 2nd option for days

22:04:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I gotta bounce though, are we adjourned?

22:04:17 <TeamColtra> no we need to know what day is best

22:04:22 <Rath> We're figuring out a meeting day, Kidd

22:04:22 <TeamColtra> unless we are just going to discuss that

22:04:27 <owen> Anything but Friday/Saturday/Sunday

22:04:30 <TeamColtra> outside of meeting

22:04:31 <Rush> wednesday?

22:04:33 <D-USA> We need to set the meeting before we adjurn

22:04:40 <owen> Wednesday's fine for me.

22:04:41 <TeamColtra> My best days is Sunday-Mondy

22:04:52 <TeamColtra> but wednesday works too

22:04:52 <TeamColtra> :D

22:04:52 <K`Tetch> we ran a survey in december, and tuesdays were hte overwhelming winner

22:04:57 -!- alex|away is now known as alex

22:05:08 <D-USA> Tuesday is pretty much the only day that has no conflict

22:05:09 <K`Tetch> friday/sat/sun are all but impossible for me

22:05:15 <Rath> Oy.

22:05:17 <TeamColtra> tuesday doesn't work well for our admin though

22:05:18 <Rath> Ok, Tuesday

22:05:19 <owen> This is just scheduling for the next meeting, mind you.

22:05:23 <D-USA> Monday is impossible for me, all other days are big problems

22:05:30 <TeamColtra> and that kinda would suck for our meetings if our admin can't even pay attention because seh is in class

22:05:37 <Rath> Earlier would be bad for people, I imagine?

22:05:38 <D-USA> once we have more officers we don't have to worry about Quorum

22:05:47 <Rath> True dat ^

22:05:48 <D-USA> Earlier would work for me

22:05:53 <owen> Earlier in the day would be fine by me, just not *too* much earlier.

22:05:54 <D-USA> but our meetings tend to drag on

22:05:54 <D-USA> lol

22:05:59 <TeamColtra> Rath, what time works best for you?

22:06:07 <D-USA> (we are at 2 hours right now)

22:06:08 <TeamColtra> OOC

22:06:09 <Rath> Two hours earlier?

22:06:14 <owen> EST please

22:06:16 <owen> 6 EST?

22:06:17 <Rath> 4 pm EST?

22:06:26 <owen> No, that's 6

22:06:28 <owen> it's 8 now.

22:06:28 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Work 4-8

22:06:30 <Rath> We started at 6 EST, didn't we?

22:06:31 <D-USA> We are starting at 8 EST right now

22:06:35 <Rath> Oh

22:06:36 <Rath> Ok

22:06:38 <Rath> 6PM EST

22:06:41 <owen> 8's late as hell

22:06:41 <Rath> Would be amazing

22:06:48 <owen> CaPtAiN_KiDd can't make it then, meh

22:06:59 <K`Tetch> 6pm est makes it 3pm pacific

22:07:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I made my schedule so I can make meetings on tuesday

22:07:15 <Rath> Oy

22:07:23 <D-USA> how long is your schedule set for KiDd?

22:07:48 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> from 8 onward since that's what was told to me from Brad when I first started participating

22:07:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> 8pm Eastern

22:08:07 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> thought I would be in an officer's position so I made arrangements

22:08:09 <TeamColtra> We are going to have to make some form of concession

22:08:12 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :-/

22:08:25 <D-USA> let's meed at midnight

22:08:31 <D-USA> even at work I can pay attention by then

22:08:32 <TeamColtra> LOL

22:08:32 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol awesome

22:08:33 <D-USA> lol

22:08:41 <TeamColtra> i think 3AM works better for me

22:08:45 <Rath> If it's much later than 6 PM EST, I'll have to leave halfway

22:08:46 <Rath> lawl

22:08:53 <alex> Night is a good time for Pirates to meet. :-D

22:09:00 <TeamColtra> Lets all admit it... everyone is at home at 3AM

22:09:05 <TeamColtra> :P

22:09:08 <Pugnax> I'm working at 3am

22:09:11 <Rath> Your logic is flawless, TC.

22:09:13 <Rath> Or not

22:09:20 <Rath> Ok

22:09:21 <Rath> So

22:09:21 <Rath> Times

22:09:22 <TeamColtra> Pugnax, well you will just have to be excluded

22:09:24 <D-USA> I work at 3am, but I can log in from work when we are slow

22:09:50 <Pugnax> I work from home

22:09:52 <owen> http://www.doodle.com/wzb4ndcg3vhhdatu

22:09:54 <Pugnax> no probs

22:10:05 <Rath> What time do we want to have meetings at?

22:10:25 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> you ask that expecting everyone to give a same time lol

22:10:36 <owen> 5 to 8

22:10:39 <Rath> Nah, just actual answers

22:10:40 <Rush> I'm still for 8PM est

22:10:41 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Everybody made it here tonight

22:10:43 <Rath> They're all over the place

22:10:47 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> but....

22:10:48 <Rush> earlier than that is no good for me

22:10:56 <owen> CaPtAiN_KiDd, it's painful, lol

22:11:03 <owen> we're going so SLOWLY

22:11:12 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so how about 10 or 11pm Eastern on tuesdays?

22:11:20 <Rath> :D

22:11:23 <owen> Nooo

22:11:23 <Rath> I like that idea

22:11:26 <Rush> how about 9PM

22:11:38 <D-USA> Later would work better than earlier for me

22:11:38 <Rath> What time is it now EST?

22:11:39 <alex> I'm good any time, but the later the better for me.

22:11:44 <owen> Urg, even 9 is late.

22:11:46 <D-USA> It is 10pm EST right now rath

22:11:48 <Rush> it's 10:11 est

22:11:53 <Rath> k

22:11:59 <owen> I'm not super enthused about starting past 8, but I'd come.

22:12:05 <D-USA> what time is your class over Rath?

22:12:15 <Rath> It's 6:30-9, lul

22:12:23 <Rath> It's not a big deal if it's shorter

22:12:32 <Rath> But this meeting has been like trying to herd cats

22:12:33 <D-USA> the meeting is never short

22:12:45 <Rush> herding cats is easy with the right dosage

22:12:49 <D-USA> and if we hold it every two weeks, there will be more on the agenda

22:12:52 <Rath> And I either don't pay enough attention to you cats

22:12:58 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> 9pm Eastern I can do

22:13:02 <Rath> Or to the philosophy discussion that I'm going to get tested on

22:13:14 <Pugnax> What phil class?

22:13:24 <Rath> Intro to ethics

22:13:29 <Rush> lol

22:13:31 <Pugnax> Ethics is simple

22:13:40 <Pugnax> Classic, deontological, etc

22:13:40 <Rath> lul

22:13:40 <Rath> OK

22:14:19 <Rath> And I'm totally lost on what's going on now

22:14:20 <Rath> Awesome

22:14:23 <Rath> Ok

22:14:24 <Rath> Tuesdays

22:14:30 <Rath> Weekly or bi-weekly?

22:14:38 <D-USA> let's just worry about next week, lol

22:14:49 <Rath> I can go with that

22:14:52 <Rath> k

22:14:58 <TeamColtra> biweekly

22:15:02 <Rath> The 9th?

22:15:05 <owen> fine, fine.

22:15:08 <D-USA> yeah, what time?

22:15:09 <owen> The 9th, though.

22:15:12 <owen> 9 PM?

22:15:21 <D-USA> 9pm EST? 10pm EST?

22:15:34 <D-USA> what makes live a little easier for Rath

22:15:37 <Rath> 9PM works

22:15:45 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> k 9pm

22:15:47 <Rath> 10 I'd have to leave halfway through

22:15:52 <D-USA> okay

22:15:55 <TeamColtra> All in in favor?

22:16:00 <Rath> Yes

22:16:03 <D-USA> Meeting on February 9th, 9pm EST

22:16:06 <owen> aye

22:16:07 <Pugnax> aye

22:16:08 <TeamColtra> aye

22:16:09 * Rush votes aye

22:16:09 <D-USA> aye

22:16:12 * alex votes aye

22:16:18 <Rath> Sorry for the trouble guys <3 I have the gall to try and get an education, for whatever reason

22:16:19 <Rath> Aye

22:16:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye

22:16:32 <TeamColtra> damn you Rath

22:16:35 <TeamColtra> and your "education"

22:16:40 <Rath> I know ;-;

22:16:49 <Rush> Coltra needs Re-Education

22:16:58 <Rush> and we've always been at war with East Asia

22:17:06 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah Rath, i'm done after this semester.....then another 4 years

22:17:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> the nerve of us

22:17:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> We've always been at war with East Asia Rush

22:17:37 <TeamColtra> Rush, I actually enroll tomorrow

22:17:39 <TeamColtra> in school

22:17:57 <Rush> wimpersnappers

22:18:04 <alex> Can we adjourn?

22:18:06 <owen> So now that we're all off-topic again

22:18:07 <Rath> Haha, Kidd. We rebels.

22:18:10 <owen> Yes, please!

22:18:13 <Rath> Yeah, I move to adjourn the meeting

22:18:19 * Rush votes aye

22:18:22 <TeamColtra> All in favor of adjournment?

22:18:27 <TeamColtra> Aye

22:18:27 <owen> aye

22:18:30 <K`Tetch> aye

22:18:34 * alex AYE!

22:18:41 * D-USA votes nay

22:18:45 <D-USA> this party must go on

22:18:48 * Pugnax votes aye

22:19:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye!!!!!!!!

22:19:24 <TeamColtra> /kick D-USA go have your own party

22:19:26 <TeamColtra> err ;)

22:19:40 <D-USA> don't fake kick the guy who can real kick you, young grasshopper

22:19:46 <D-USA> lol

22:19:49 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Officer David Bowie's Codpiece has no say in this :-P

22:19:56 <WebGuest65> aye

22:20:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well then, gnight!

22:20:09 <Rath> G'night all

22:20:12 -!- CaPtAiN_KiDd!~Jay@Name141-BFC757FA.dyn.optonline.net has left #meeting

22:20:14 <D-USA> night

22:20:15 <Rath> Thanks for coming =)

22:20:16 <WebGuest65> night, everyone

22:20:22 <owen> goodnight, everybody!

22:20:31 * TeamColtra has kicked D-USA from #meeting (hahaha)

22:20:33 -!- alex!~alex@ECFEC902.226D5169.DC885BFD.IP has left #meeting

22:20:36 <Rush> Goodnight and good luck!