2010-02-02
From USPP Wiki
This meeting was called on January 28th, 2010 and meets the definition of an Emergency Meeting as per the USPP Constitution
[edit] Agenda
- Set definitive date for elections for remaining offices for the remainder of the term ending in July.
- Discuss possible legal actions to take against former administrator Ryan Martin for failure to turn over administration of the party to Brittany Phelps.
- Related to above - discuss 5-year ban on Mr Martin, for actions contrary to the interests of the party.
- Make sure people know that we aren't the PPUS, but rather the USPP. A lot of people have been erroneously using the PPUS acronym lately.
- Consideration of using an amended version of Roberts Rules of Order for USPP meetings.
[edit] Log
20:14:09 <Rath> Alrighty folks, let's call the meeting to order.
20:14:19 <alex> I want to influence primary elections to get Pirate Democrats elected rather than non-Pirate Democrats.
20:14:45 <QuazarGuy> I like that idea
20:14:49 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> that's cool alex, but we stick to the agendas during meetings
20:14:54 <alex> ok
20:14:55 <Rush> Indeed
20:14:58 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> you can add it i think
20:15:06 <Rath> Alright, roll call. Who all's present?
20:15:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> next meeting maybe?
20:15:11 <D-USA> we can stick around after the meeting is adjurned and address your thoughts
20:15:15 <Rath> Brittany Phelps, Arizona
20:15:18 <owen> Owen Kahn, Maine
20:15:21 <Rush> Bradley Hall, Florida
20:15:23 <D-USA> Marcus Kesler, Oklahoma
20:15:25 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Jay Emerson, NY, here
20:15:26 <TeamColtra> Travis McCrea Alaska
20:15:26 <alex> Alex Eagar, Utah
20:15:32 <K`Tetch> Andrew Norton, Georgia
20:15:34 <QuazarGuy> Jeffrey Talada, Washington
20:15:59 <WebGuest65> Uh, should I do the same then?
20:16:01 <Pugnax> Hugh Russ, NV
20:16:06 <owen> Go for it, WebGuest65
20:16:11 <WebGuest65> Benjamin Brumer, California
20:16:14 <Rath> crash ?
20:16:37 <K`Tetch> assume he's not here then
20:16:46 -!- Haplo!~Haplo@A7F3CDC.45D787E7.3B43FFE6.IP has joined #meeting
20:16:47 <D-USA> 11 members present
20:16:53 <Haplo> I'll be idling but I'm present
20:16:55 <D-USA> haplo, identify yourself
20:17:16 <D-USA> 12 present
20:17:32 <Rath> Alright
20:18:06 <Rath> We have quorum, whoo!, as we have two officers, D-USA and myself, present, and plenty more than 2 non-officers, so we can go ahead and proceed to the first item
20:18:18 <Rath> Elections for the remaining offices
20:18:41 <Rath> We've got three offices with candidates at the moment. All three candidates are here, as it were
20:19:10 <K`Tetch> ok, we have to close nominations at least 7 days before an election
20:19:13 <TeamColtra> Can you list the spots and candidates so we know who and what those are?
20:19:20 <QuazarGuy> How many offices without candidates?
20:19:21 <K`Tetch> and we've not formally announced opening of candidacy
20:19:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> good call
20:19:24 <Rath> CaPtAiN_KiDd is running for Operations, TeamColtra is running for Promotions, and Rush for Records
20:19:37 <owen> Ardeo's still AWOL?
20:19:39 <K`Tetch> 5 of the 7, QuazarGuy
20:19:40 <D-USA> I think the biggest complaint other's have with the party is that the "IRC Crowd" runs the party. I think we need to post notice about the fact that we have elections and what the openings are on the twitter/facebook/front page
20:19:40 <Rath> The only other offices without candidates are Legal and Financial, QG
20:20:11 <K`Tetch> QuazarGuy - http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Constitution#Article_1:_Separation_of_Powers states the positions and the powers
20:20:19 <K`Tetch> all positions would last until July
20:20:20 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> And ya can't be legal without being a lawyer
20:20:26 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> from what I understand
20:20:27 <K`Tetch> when they will be up for election again
20:20:37 <D-USA> I think if we post the notices ASAP, we can give a week for people to nominate
20:20:40 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, even if you can, it would be highly ineffective
20:20:43 <D-USA> close nominations next tuesday
20:20:50 <D-USA> and elections the tuesday after that
20:20:54 <K`Tetch> yeah, week for nominations, and a week to 'stump'
20:20:58 <K`Tetch> elections in 2 weeks time
20:21:02 <Rath> K'Tetch, all three have made an announcement of candidacy on the forums. That's all that's required, per the constitution.
20:21:07 <D-USA> So actual elections would be February 16th, 2010
20:21:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rath has a point
20:21:16 <K`Tetch> right, but no annoucnement that cnadidacy is open
20:21:25 <K`Tetch> candidacy
20:21:39 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, it says on the officer page
20:21:40 <K`Tetch> so others may not know
20:21:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Isn't that covered by the "VACANT" notice on the officers section?
20:22:06 <Rath> Where are you seeing this, K'Tetch?
20:22:13 <D-USA> KiDd: But people don't know when elections for those officers are. That's my only real concern about holding elections now
20:22:22 <Rush> I know right off we can advertise on the Facebook, dunno about the site or twitter, are they functional? And odds are we'll get a bunch of punks running for posts
20:22:47 <owen> Rush: Twitter's no good, but the site's golden.
20:23:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> All nominations shall be accomplished by either announcing candidacy for a position, or by having someone else announce the candidate's nomination for the position. The nominee may withdraw the nomination at any time before the actual vote. Nominations shall be announced a minimum term of 7 days before a vote should be held. Nominations may be held open for up to 30 days. All nominations must be announced in a public area, such
20:23:10 <owen> I say close on the 9th, vote the 16th, seems reasonable to me.
20:23:17 <Rush> And as far as the IRC Crowd is running things, we're the people who show up. They know there's meetings here, it's their fault they don't show
20:23:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Nothin about effectively advertising past the VACANT notice on the officers page
20:23:47 <TeamColtra> I started the clock over a week ago with my candidacy proposal
20:24:03 <D-USA> I was only worried that posting "vacant" is not the same as posting "we are having elections"
20:24:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Unless we wanna make up stuff as we go along :-P
20:24:21 <K`Tetch> yeah, but the officers page doesn't say anything about posting candidacy, it says 'if you're intersted, email info@'
20:24:21 <owen> 9th and 16th is all Tuesdays, fair notice, gives seven days, and falls within 30 days.
20:24:36 <D-USA> Having a "vacant" leaves no notice as to when the deadline of "7 days before elections" takes effect
20:24:44 <Rath> The Constitution states "All nominations shall be accomplished by either announcing candidacy for a position, or by having someone else announce the candidate's nomination for the position. The nominee may withdraw the nomination at any time before the actual vote. Nominations shall be announced a minimum term of 7 days before a vote should be held."
20:24:51 <TeamColtra> D-USA, however, if someone wants to be an officer of the party, they should also be able to understand the bylaws of the party and know how to apply, and also keep up with even a little forum activity and see that others have put their nomination in
20:25:22 <K`Tetch> TeamColtra - but with no notification that there is another election, or when, you can't close nominations without having set a date for the elecyion
20:25:25 <K`Tetch> election
20:25:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Are we gonna go by interpretation of the officer's page or the constitutiont
20:25:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ?
20:25:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> *constitution
20:25:48 <K`Tetch> constitutoin is binding
20:25:55 <K`Tetch> officer page isn't
20:26:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well then, what does it say about this in the constitution
20:26:06 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ?
20:26:08 <QuazarGuy> Then the officer's page requires updating
20:26:16 <K`Tetch> already said that
20:26:19 <Rath> Yes, it does.
20:26:20 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> oh
20:26:22 <K`Tetch> because right now it's completely out of date
20:26:26 <Rath> A lot of stuff needs updating >.<
20:26:32 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yup
20:26:34 <Rush> It's been out of date for over a month
20:26:40 <Rath> I just got the access today, though =x
20:26:41 <Rath> Anyways
20:26:43 <Rath> Elections
20:26:44 <owen> Rush, we got access at like 4 PM.
20:26:45 <K`Tetch> we've just been unable to do so, until, I believe, today
20:26:47 <TeamColtra> Rath, which brings me to the point that we need officers in positions to start doing stuff
20:26:52 <K`Tetch> which is covered in point 2
20:27:01 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Second Coltra's statement
20:27:30 <owen> Proposal - Let's announce elections tonight, to be held on Tuesday the 16th.
20:27:32 <Rath> Yes, we do. But speeding the process to the point of unfairness is wrong.
20:27:41 <K`Tetch> nominations close 9th, election 16th is a fair way to make sure anyone intersted does both know about the election, and can post a nomination
20:27:42 <Rath> I second owen's proposal.
20:27:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> another two weeks of an extension for "effectively" advertising the posts seems counterproductive and we're also assuming everyone has a Facebook
20:27:59 <TeamColtra> second CaPtAiN_KiDd
20:28:00 <owen> Any objections/alternative suggestions?
20:28:02 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - we can now do the site
20:28:03 <Rath> I will send out a message to the FB tonight, on the Alpha group, and on the site
20:28:09 <owen> CaPtAiN_KiDd: It'd be on the website as well.
20:28:09 <Rath> I can't do any more than that.
20:28:23 <K`Tetch> and the 'twitter'
20:28:34 <owen> K`Tetch: We don't have access to that, do we?
20:28:35 <K`Tetch> (and identica)
20:28:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> owen: I think Rath's hands are tied by the letter of the constitution on this
20:28:40 <K`Tetch> we have one of them
20:28:49 <Rath> It's not worth being unfair to any other potential candidates just to speed the process a bit.
20:28:51 <owen> CaPtAiN_KiDd, what do you mean?
20:28:53 <D-USA> if we hold elections next week, it just reeks of "let's close the candidacy perior before anybody opposes us"
20:28:56 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - ownes proposal is perfectly acceptable within the constitution
20:29:14 <TeamColtra> I would like to make a proposal that we post, and have 3 additional days for nominations, and then a week before voting, unless there were no nomination, in which case we can say that those spots were filled automttically
20:29:17 <TeamColtra> as per the constitution
20:29:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> oh, no, i thought Rath was saying that ccording to the constitution the 7 day rule was all we could do
20:29:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> nevermind :-)
20:29:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> *according'
20:29:30 <Rath> Nah
20:29:41 <Rath> owen's proposal is perfect.
20:29:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> if that's not the case then I say owen's proposal
20:30:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah
20:30:02 <owen> Ah, sweeet. :-)
20:30:06 <Rath> Well, at least that's my opinion xD
20:30:10 <Rath> Alright. So
20:30:14 <Rush> I like Coltra's, if no one is running for a position, why have an election for it? We know who's gonna win
20:30:21 <QuazarGuy> Is there anything keeping people from performing the actions of positions without being in the position?
20:30:29 * D-USA makes a motion to hold elections on February 16th, meaning people have until the 9th to nominate
20:30:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rush has a point
20:30:42 <TeamColtra> I agree with rush (which is agreeing with me :P )
20:30:42 <Rath> We need to give time to anyone else who's interested in running.
20:30:45 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> being unopposed is in the constitution I assume to speed up the process
20:31:01 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so thats a judgement call really
20:31:04 <Rush> And I agree with Coltra
20:31:18 <D-USA> let me ammend then
20:31:28 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Yeah, sorry owen, gonna have to go with Coltra on this
20:31:29 <Rath> Yes. But would that sort of election really befit the party that advocates openness?
20:31:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> constitutionally that is
20:31:39 <Rush> True
20:31:41 <Rath> If we get to the ninth and nobody else runs against you all, that's great
20:31:51 <K`Tetch> indeed, an unoposed election
20:31:53 <K`Tetch> well, kinda
20:31:54 <Rush> We could keep the one person ballots, but have write-ins available too
20:31:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ok, i'm not typing anything until others debate
20:31:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol
20:32:05 <TeamColtra> Rath, its currently in the constitution that if there are no opposers there is no election
20:32:18 * D-USA makes a motion to hold elections on February 16th, meaning people have until the 9th of february to nominate. If offices are unopposed by the deadline, the candidate shall be declared the winner and hold said office effective February 10th
20:32:19 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra is right
20:32:19 <D-USA> ?
20:32:34 <TeamColtra> :) I wasn't being intelligent with this radical idea... just quoting :P
20:32:47 <owen> TeamColtra, your proposal is to vote on the 9th?
20:32:53 <owen> Am I correct?
20:33:04 <D-USA> I am very opposed to voting on the 9th
20:33:13 <D-USA> that means nominations are closed, without any announcement
20:33:19 <K`Tetch> I vote aye on D-USA's proposal
20:33:22 <Haplo> wait
20:33:27 <owen> Closed as of today, yeah.
20:33:30 <owen> Haplo?
20:33:37 <Haplo> if there is no opposition then why would there be a vote
20:33:38 <TeamColtra> owen, 12th technically
20:33:42 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - do you remember how upset you were when you thought there was a Q+A on facebook, nd no-one told you?
20:33:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Haplo is right
20:33:56 <TeamColtra> lol Haplo thats what we are saying
20:34:00 <Haplo> who is running unopposed, and who isn't?
20:34:08 <D-USA> but we have not even announced a vote, to see if there is anyone else interested in running against anyone
20:34:09 <TeamColtra> all of us are unopposed
20:34:09 <owen> Haplo, everyone's unapposed,
20:34:13 <Rath> All of them are running unopposed
20:34:16 <owen> but nobody outside the party core knows they can run.
20:34:24 <owen> Here, compromise.
20:34:27 <Haplo> I thought there were several announcements
20:34:36 <Rath> Not widely, no
20:34:37 <D-USA> other than the logs of the meeting two weeks ago
20:34:41 <owen> Elections on the 12th.
20:34:42 <K`Tetch> no, no annoucnements of a date of election (which would also imply a termination of nomination)
20:34:43 <Rath> Announcements to run for those positions
20:34:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Several announcements, all for different positions lol
20:34:52 <Rush> I'm sure I mentioned we were going ot be holding elections for the other positions in a message, I think
20:34:53 <Rath> Oy, brb
20:34:54 <owen> That's three more days for nominations, if anybody wants to,
20:34:57 <TeamColtra> We can't hold back progress of the party, because there may be someone who doesn't follow what the party does
20:35:05 <Rath> No, I don't believe you did, Rush
20:35:11 <Rush> oops
20:35:39 <owen> The 12th is only three days later than the 9th, but that's still a window for nominations.
20:35:47 <Rush> I get what Coltra's saying, do we really want someone to run who doesn't know exactly what's going on?
20:35:48 <D-USA> but closing the nominations, without any official announcment, does not seem to be very transparent
20:35:49 <owen> How do people feel about that compromise?
20:35:54 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra has a point
20:35:58 <owen> Elections on the 12th!
20:36:05 <owen> Small window for nominations, not too much delay!
20:36:12 <Rush> today is the 2nd
20:36:27 <K`Tetch> you can't announce the election date and close the nominations at the same time
20:36:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> We advertise elections, an outside party member sees it, makes a whole bunch of email accounts to sign up to vote
20:36:42 <K`Tetch> and annoucing an interest in a position also doesn't logically follow there is an election
20:36:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and then we have a problem
20:36:44 <K`Tetch> or when it is
20:36:53 <D-USA> that's a risk we take
20:36:55 <Rath> Why not set elections for the 16?
20:37:06 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> jeez the 16th?
20:37:07 <QuazarGuy> You have to be a paying member to vote right?
20:37:10 <D-USA> if nobody opposes we will have officers boarded next week
20:37:15 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Yeah, but not now
20:37:19 <owen> tweeeelth
20:37:23 <Rath> We haven't a mechanism for keeping track of payments
20:37:25 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> right now if you can make an account on the site
20:37:28 <Rath> And i don't even have the paypal info yet >.<
20:37:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> you get to vote
20:37:57 <owen> The twelfth would have a window. no closing nominations immediately.
20:37:59 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> All i'm saying is that what stops "outside forces" from stuffing the ballot?
20:38:09 <K`Tetch> nothing, same as with the last two election
20:38:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Anybody wanna work with tylerknowsthis as Operations Officer?
20:38:18 <D-USA> what keeps the "inside forces" of blocking the ballot
20:38:21 <owen> Lol, not at all.
20:38:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> my point exactly
20:38:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :-)
20:38:38 <TeamColtra> lol
20:38:49 <owen> But I don't see how a three-day window for nominations will destroy everything.
20:38:49 <D-USA> by keeping outsiders out, we are not transparent IMO
20:39:09 <owen> TeamColtra's argument against delaying makes sense, no need to wait a week,
20:39:11 <WebGuest65> To interject, I find owen's plan appealing.
20:39:16 <owen> but we should be at least somewhat open.
20:39:21 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ok, hold elections, I wanna win with exactly 69 votes
20:39:29 <TeamColtra> lol now even owen doesn't find his plan appealing WebGuest65
20:39:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> all by crazy people
20:39:48 <alex> Perhaps we could have people register with their name and mailing address and or telephone number and then send them a verification code to verify membership.
20:40:00 <owen> TeamColtra: Yes I do
20:40:01 <D-USA> big hassle really
20:40:07 <owen> I'm just compromising.
20:40:11 <Rush> that would take too long and cost money we don't have the luxury of spending
20:40:19 <TeamColtra> owen, well I like your compromised plan better
20:40:22 <TeamColtra> ;)
20:40:23 <WebGuest65> To have the election on the 12th?
20:40:36 <owen> TeamColtra, you do?
20:40:39 <K`Tetch> alex - thats the plan
20:40:39 <TeamColtra> elections on the 12th unless no more people run in 3 days
20:40:39 <owen> 12th would be good, I think.
20:40:42 <alex> The last election had less than 50 people vote, I think we can afford 50 text messages or letters.
20:41:03 <K`Tetch> we can't afford anything right now, because of item 2
20:41:11 <D-USA> we are a party of Privacy, I don't know if asking people for ID for a party full of people they don't know is appealing
20:41:14 <TeamColtra> alex, I have a text messaging system that I want to encorporate but am running into issues
20:41:16 <Rush> 64 people registered to vote, but only half actually did
20:41:21 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I'm gonna win Operations Officer either by being unopposed or by soliciting for my election to others that can make an account and vote even though they might not even know what this party even is
20:41:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> under current election rules, that's legal
20:41:42 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> just sayin
20:41:50 <alex> Unless someone does it better than you.
20:41:58 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> True alex lol
20:42:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so it's a race to get votes with something easier then collecting signatures for a petition
20:42:55 * Rath moves to have elections on the 12th, with nominations closing on the... 5th?
20:43:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I can go to Facebook and have any random group i'm a part of flood the place to vote
20:43:12 <TeamColtra> i second that
20:43:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> under current terms for election
20:43:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> second that as well
20:43:25 <TeamColtra> however, I would like to ammend that if there are no further nominations
20:43:29 <K`Tetch> thats why, when I ran the July election, when I closed nominations and annoucned the format of the election, I also annnounced that website accounts made prior to that weren't acceptable. and to vote you had to have a website account, or have participated in a meeting
20:43:34 <TeamColtra> that we just have people accepted on the 5th
20:43:49 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra read my mind
20:43:52 <K`Tetch> thats what the constitution sayys travis
20:44:05 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, I just want to make sure we are all clear
20:44:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah, im goin by what i read in the constitution
20:44:14 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, its a short book ;)
20:44:18 <K`Tetch> All officers shall be elected by veto consensus vote. This means that members shall be nominated by any member the electoral body of the Pirate Party for a specific position. If there shall be no dissenting voice, the nomination shall stand, and no seconding nomination shall be needed. An agreement among the peers involved in the election process shall suffice unless there be contention about who is the best candidate, at which time a vote may be called by the
20:44:21 * owen votes aye on Rath's proposal
20:44:23 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> techincally wednesday i'm Op Officer automatically
20:44:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> unless we amend it right now
20:45:13 <D-USA> if any office has no canditate by the 5th, it will remain empty
20:45:19 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and from what I understand we can't amend the constitution until July
20:45:21 <K`Tetch> until the next cycle, yes
20:45:23 <D-USA> if any office only has one candidate by the 5th, it will be filled by the 6th
20:45:33 <TeamColtra> I move to vote?
20:45:35 <owen> Alright, fair enough.
20:45:36 <owen> Vote!
20:45:39 <Rath> Alright. All in favor, vote aye.
20:45:40 <D-USA> if any office has two or more candidated by teh 5th, there will be a vote
20:45:41 * owen votes aye
20:45:45 * Rath votes aye
20:45:46 <K`Tetch> aye
20:45:49 * TeamColtra votes aye
20:45:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> wait, state whats being voted on first
20:46:01 <owen> 20:40 * Rath moves to have elections on the 12th, with nominations closing on the... 5th?
20:46:02 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so there's no confusion for the new peoples :-)
20:46:14 <Rush> what are we voting on
20:46:16 <TeamColtra> I move to vote that nominations close on the 5th and votes will happen 7 days later
20:46:23 <TeamColtra> all in favor say aye
20:46:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Aye!
20:46:32 <alex> aye
20:46:34 <Rush> aye
20:46:36 * TeamColtra votes aye
20:46:39 * K`Tetch votes AYE
20:46:50 <Rush> wait
20:46:59 <Rush> why the 5th? That's 3 days
20:47:12 <owen> Rush, yeah, that's the compromise.
20:47:15 <Rath> That was the compromise owen proposed, Rush
20:47:18 <Rush> oh
20:47:23 <Rush> k
20:47:23 <owen> It was a week vs. no nominations at all.
20:47:26 * D-USA votes nay
20:48:05 <Rush> I change my vote to nay
20:48:10 <Rush> how do I make that purple
20:48:13 <alex> Is Brittany planning on being here?
20:48:18 <K`Tetch> /me says
20:48:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> alex: Brittany is Rath
20:48:28 * Rush says votes nay
20:48:29 <owen> alex: Brittany is Rath
20:48:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> jinx!
20:48:37 <Rush> lol
20:48:37 <alex> thank
20:48:51 <owen> Ergh, counting... People've voted twice, lol.
20:48:52 <Rath> Sorry, in class right now, so I'm a bit slow
20:49:14 <Rath> I'm going to go ahead and vote nay as well.
20:49:16 <D-USA> no prop
20:49:24 <owen> lol, damn
20:49:38 <D-USA> 3 to 3 right now
20:49:40 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so whats the count?
20:49:41 <owen> So is there no possibility of simple majority, so I can stop counting?
20:49:49 <D-USA> we had 12 people here
20:50:07 <owen> RESTART THE VOTE
20:50:12 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yes
20:50:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> please
20:50:15 <owen> Everyone's switched, this is obnoxious.
20:50:19 <TeamColtra> There is an official motion to restart a vote, but I don't rembmer what its called
20:50:29 * Rush votes nay
20:50:30 <TeamColtra> Everyone... only vote once.. and please no sidebar conversations
20:50:38 * D-USA votes nay
20:50:44 * TeamColtra votes affirmative
20:50:47 * owen votes aye
20:50:50 <Rath> Nay
20:50:55 * K`Tetch votes NAY
20:50:57 * alex votes Nay
20:51:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
20:51:45 <Haplo> abstain
20:51:51 <Rath> Haplo Pugnax QuazarGuy WebGuest65
20:51:55 <Rath> lul, sorry Haplo xD
20:52:06 * WebGuest65 votes aye.
20:52:24 <Rath> 4 aye, 5 nay, 1 abstain
20:52:29 <TeamColtra> Did WebGuest65 identify?
20:52:32 <owen> Pugnax, QuazarGuy could turn it.
20:52:38 <Rath> Dunno
20:52:43 <WebGuest65> I believe so.
20:52:44 <K`Tetch> [20:15.36] <WebGuest65> Benjamin Brumer, California
20:52:56 <Haplo> Aside: http://pirate-party.us/content/contact is now updated
20:53:01 <K`Tetch> owen - its veto consensus, not majority rules
20:53:20 <QuazarGuy> aye
20:53:40 <K`Tetch> http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Veto_Consensus_Method
20:53:44 <Rath> Pugnax ?
20:53:45 <TeamColtra> 4 aye, 5 nay, 1 abstain
20:53:49 <Haplo> 5-5-1...
20:54:26 <Haplo> doesn't that mean the vote is thrown out and you'd have to find a new compromise
20:54:32 <Rath> Yep
20:54:38 <D-USA> let's try this one
20:54:41 * D-USA makes a motion to hold elections on February 16th, meaning people have until the 9th of february to nominate. If offices are unopposed by the deadline, the candidate shall be declared the winner and hold said office effective February 10th
20:54:52 * K`Tetch votes AYE
20:54:56 * owen votes aye
20:55:01 * Rath votes aye
20:55:01 * WebGuest65 votes aye
20:55:02 * D-USA votes aye
20:55:09 * alex votes aye
20:55:11 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
20:55:12 * Haplo votes aye
20:55:14 * Rush aye
20:55:16 <QuazarGuy> aye
20:55:24 <Haplo> 10-0, much better
20:55:27 <Rath> 10
20:55:28 <D-USA> what a touching moment
20:55:34 <owen> lol, D-USA
20:55:35 <Rath> Motion passed
20:55:36 <Rath> Go D-USA
20:55:38 <Rath> Ok
20:55:40 <Rath> Item 2
20:55:46 <Rush> isn't that what you do all the time anyway, D-USA?
20:55:48 <TeamColtra> nay
20:55:53 <TeamColtra> lol but that didn't matter :P
20:55:54 <Haplo> 10-1
20:55:59 <owen> TeamColtra, you're a brave man
20:56:00 <Rath> Haha
20:56:00 <Rath> Ok
20:56:02 <Rath> Discuss possible legal actions to take against former administrator Ryan Martin for failure to turn over administration of the party to Brittany Phelps.
20:56:41 <K`Tetch> ok, here there are possibilities
20:56:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Well 1) do we have any legal counsel to do such a thing and 2) will a letter from an attorney rather than formal charges from the outset be sufficient enough?
20:57:03 <K`Tetch> as he has access to a company bank account (ie ours) and the paypal, he's doing so fradulently
20:57:10 <Rush> (wouldn't it be for failure to turn over things to me so I could turn them over to you?)
20:57:13 <K`Tetch> thus it's wirefraud
20:57:41 <Rush> true
20:57:54 <K`Tetch> he has access to emails submitted to the site (or did until today) and financial info, via the paypal, that's data protection
20:57:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> K'Tech: making accusations of breaking the law in a formal meeting counts as libel and slander is such a charge is not the case
20:58:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> use words like "possible".....so "possible wirefraud
20:58:22 <K`Tetch> are you saying he doesn't have access to the paypal and bank account?
20:58:44 <Haplo> I am all for any legal action
20:58:44 <Rush> he still has access to emails, doesn't he still have admin account control?
20:58:46 <Haplo> but I gotta go
20:58:52 <Rath> Later Haplo
20:59:04 <Haplo> no owen got rid of his website access I think
20:59:07 -!- Haplo is now known as Haplo|Away
20:59:20 <K`Tetch> website access is gone, but he still has server access, and email account access
20:59:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> no, i'm just saying that i'm not a lawyer and you're not a lawyer and making accusations in a meeting of a political non-profit organization that can be read publicly and will be seen as the "minutes" for our organization can be used as evidence
20:59:33 <Rath> Ok, so website access down, server, financial, and everything else to go
20:59:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so I think we should be safe
21:00:05 <K`Tetch> if he belives he could make a libel charge stick, I'd be glad to see him try
21:00:15 <QuazarGuy> Is it possible to remove his access?
21:00:22 <Rath> For the website
21:00:25 <D-USA> his voice mail still states "Administrator of the USPP", so we have a possible case of fraud and misrepresentation?
21:00:30 <owen> QuazarGuy: already have, from the website.
21:00:34 <Rath> But he's the only one with access to everything else I'm waiting for access to
21:00:35 <Rath> Him or Bethany
21:00:52 <K`Tetch> owen - but he could just lock you out via the server itself, and reinstate access
21:01:04 <owen> K`Tetch, just state that you're obviously not 100% sure he's broken the law, and let's move on.
21:01:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well, just to be safe KTech, you are somebody who has a possible situation that could make it worse
21:01:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> just lookin out for ya
21:01:10 <QuazarGuy> I mean is it possible to transfer access without his authority for those other things?
21:01:14 <TeamColtra> Yeah, he still has MySQL access, and he can also IP ban on a server level
21:02:15 <K`Tetch> if we can gain access to the IRS, and update htat, it makes things stronger for regaining host access through the host
21:02:59 <QuazarGuy> Internal Revenue Service?
21:03:00 <K`Tetch> ok, I'm not 100% sure if he was breaking the la
21:03:02 <K`Tetch> yes
21:03:16 <owen> I'd like to move to table the proposal until the next meeting.
21:03:16 <Rush> how will the IRS do that
21:03:17 <K`Tetch> but I have a strong belief that he is
21:03:27 <owen> We don't know if we're in a position to take action, or even if it will be necessary.
21:03:36 <D-USA> well, I think it is necessary
21:03:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> "D-USA: his voice mail still states "Administrator of the USPP", so we have a possible case of fraud and misrepresentation?" yeah possibly, i'll talk to someone about it
21:03:37 <TeamColtra> I would also like to make a note that due to his non-cooperation, if you use a dictionary word as a password on your account... please update it to something secure, though I don't feel that he would do anything with our information, the risk is there and any time an outside party has access to the passwords of the party I feel that its a nessesary reminder
21:03:46 <owen> But let's not reject the option outright, it's just too early to say.
21:03:57 <K`Tetch> rush - updating our filings with the IRS means that the government recognises the changes, and that if we make a false statement to them, we risk criminal actions
21:04:12 <Rush> k
21:04:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Btw, about our tax status
21:04:26 <owen> Any objections to tabling it?
21:04:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we don't need to hire a CPA to be on staff
21:04:31 <K`Tetch> yes, I object
21:04:38 <Rath> As do I
21:04:39 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I object as well
21:04:43 <D-USA> same here
21:04:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> i'm gonna finish now lol
21:04:45 <K`Tetch> we've been going around this for a month oen, he's had time to do it
21:04:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I met with a CPA today
21:05:08 <Rath> Kidd, please hold off until later.
21:05:15 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and he told me that we don't make enough to require an on-staff CPA 24/7
21:05:24 <QuazarGuy> CPA?
21:05:32 <K`Tetch> accountant
21:05:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> however, for a small fee, a CPA can review our taxes and give us advice and updates on it
21:05:43 <Rush> Certified Public Accountant
21:05:50 <QuazarGuy> ok
21:05:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ah, yeah, sorry Quazar
21:06:00 <Rath> Guys, we're in a meeting. Let's not go off-topic.
21:06:04 <Rath> Back to the point.
21:06:05 <Rath> Ryan
21:06:07 <owen> on topic -
21:06:08 <K`Tetch> well, without access to our bank accont and paypal, we don't know the fiancial situation to worry about taxes
21:06:19 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> true, so that goes back to Ryan
21:06:20 <K`Tetch> which brings us back to the charges situation
21:06:36 <owen> Do we actually *know* what charges could be made against him?
21:06:43 <QuazarGuy> But before we can press charges we have to update the IRS
21:06:47 <TeamColtra> owen, no, we are just discussing
21:06:52 <K`Tetch> that would be up to the FBI as to what they actually charge him with
21:06:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I propose that giving a smaller amount of money to have an attorney send a formal letter about possible legal action will be effective
21:06:58 <owen> And by know, I mean know because we obtained legal advice?
21:07:04 <K`Tetch> a smaller amount? smaller than what?
21:07:19 <K`Tetch> does it cost now to report a crim to the FBI?
21:07:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well, retainer for lawyers go from $2K and up for organizations
21:07:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well no, butr civil charges
21:07:34 <K`Tetch> we're not talking about a civil lawsuit
21:07:37 <K`Tetch> charges, not a suit
21:07:39 <owen> I don't see how we can do a thing without knowing what we can and can't do.
21:07:41 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> if not found to be criminal
21:07:49 <K`Tetch> a civil suit is not what's being discussed
21:07:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> owen: exactly my point!
21:07:59 <D-USA> we are talking about charges, not lawsuits
21:08:15 <K`Tetch> owen, it's simple, he's got control of an IRS-registered organisation, after being fired from his position of responsibility
21:08:19 <owen> If we're talking about a criminal investigation, then that's probably different.
21:08:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ok well if we have reason to believe a crime was committed we need to call in the authorities now
21:08:37 <K`Tetch> thats you CaPtAiN_KiDd, thats the point
21:08:48 <owen> Rath, thoughts?
21:08:56 <K`Tetch> CHARGES = criminal, lawsuit = civil
21:08:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well then call the FBI
21:09:11 <Rath> Sorry, owen, class
21:09:21 <Rath> I'm not 100% of what our options are.
21:09:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Our options are to report a possible felony
21:09:36 <owen> * Talk to a lawery
21:09:40 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> other option is...well...none
21:09:41 <owen> *laywer
21:09:45 <Rath> I think we need to talk to a lawyer and see what they suggest
21:09:46 <owen> *lawyer
21:09:47 <K`Tetch> thre is a recent parallel case - the San Fran wifi admin case
21:09:48 <Rath> And then go from there.
21:09:51 <owen> Or
21:09:55 <owen> * call the FBI
21:09:58 <alex> I suggest we talk to a lawyer.
21:10:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah, you don't call a lawyer when somebody breaks into your car do you?
21:10:25 <D-USA> the only lawyer issue is that we don't even have access to the money from Ryan, which we need to hire a lawyer to talk about Ryan
21:10:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well you can ask the FBI to look into it
21:10:31 <D-USA> it's an infinite loop
21:10:32 <TeamColtra> What if we call the FBI, and see what they say? I mean you don't always have to know the exact wording just say whats happening
21:10:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> it's not like dialing 911
21:10:51 <TeamColtra> I mean if you are getting mugged you don't say "I THINK I WAS JUST ASSULTED AND BATTERED"
21:10:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra: yup, you can call the FBI and tell them
21:11:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> "ask" them
21:11:12 <K`Tetch> talk to them
21:11:20 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah
21:11:23 <D-USA> That's the main purpose of adding it to the agenda. To see if the party is willing to unite and tell Ryan that we are open to use "every" option we have
21:11:27 <TeamColtra> You call them and say you got mugged, I am sure it works the same way with the FBI, just tell them whats going on, and they will know if its illegal or not
21:11:32 <K`Tetch> its certainly 'reasonable suspicion of a crime'
21:12:00 <K`Tetch> because why else would he not hand over the paypal account, unless it's because he wants the money
21:12:01 <TeamColtra> I feel that Rath should make a call to the FBI within 24 hours before we start losing our window
21:12:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra is making the best point here (my point also) that you can call the FBI about this
21:12:07 <alex> I still think a lawyer would know how best to proceed. It would be best to let the lawyer contact FBI.
21:12:11 <D-USA> we are not voting on calling the FBI right now, we are voting to see if we agree that all options need to be on the table
21:12:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> it ain't like dialing 911
21:12:31 <K`Tetch> alex - lawyers don't report crimes
21:12:38 <owen> D-USA, sure.
21:12:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> from what I understand the FBI dpoesn't mind people calling to report a possible occourence of a felony
21:12:43 <K`Tetch> you hire a lawyer yourself for a private prosecutoin, or a civil action
21:12:43 <TeamColtra> D-USA, I disagree, I think we all agree or a majority of us agree that we need to do something
21:12:47 <TeamColtra> if not lets vote on it
21:12:47 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> kinda like their "thing" ya know? :-P
21:12:51 <TeamColtra> get that part out of the way
21:12:54 <Rush> the fbi has a link on their site to report a crime
21:13:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rush Saves The Day!
21:13:09 <K`Tetch> it's also part of our party 'creed' to support accountability
21:13:10 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> (again)
21:13:14 <Rush> https://tips.fbi.gov/
21:13:18 <D-USA> it just let's Ryan know that the party agrees to let Rath proceed, and let's Ryan now we are not messing around
21:13:21 <K`Tetch> so we need to show it, including holding ryan accountable to his actions
21:13:39 <TeamColtra> D-USA, we have already sent him official messages saying that we are willing to do anything
21:13:42 <K`Tetch> yeah, and it's not just 'K`TEtch driving it'
21:13:56 <Rush> http://phoenix.fbi.gov/
21:14:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> VOTE! All in favor of contacting the proper authorities about the possible occourence of a crime by a former member?
21:14:14 <TeamColtra> Would it be phoenix or would it be atlanta?
21:14:17 * Pugnax votes aye
21:14:25 <D-USA> hold up a minute, let's give this some proper phrasing
21:14:33 <Rush> well, Phoenix is Rath's locality
21:14:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> agreed D-USA
21:14:36 <D-USA> jsut to make it clear that not all members are picking up the phone now
21:14:41 <TeamColtra> Rush, but Atlanta would be his
21:14:48 * Rath moves to support a proposal that we as a party are willing and determined to pursue all possible, legal means against Ryan Jason Martin in order to retrieve all party documents, passwords, etc., in his possession, to be carried out by the Party's administrator, Brittany Phelps
21:14:49 <D-USA> well, the FBI covers every state
21:14:50 <K`Tetch> TeamColtra - doesn't matter
21:15:01 <Rath> Yes, I live in Phoenix
21:15:13 <K`Tetch> as rath is the administrator, thats the party's head office
21:15:19 <K`Tetch> thats where the investigation will start
21:15:28 <K`Tetch> and if need be, will invovle the atlanta office
21:15:29 <TeamColtra> Okay
21:15:31 * D-USA seconds rath's proposal
21:15:40 * Rush votes aye
21:15:44 * TeamColtra votes in favor
21:15:45 * K`Tetch votes aye on the proposal
21:15:46 * D-USA votes aye
21:15:49 * Rath votes aye
21:15:50 * Pugnax votes aye
21:15:53 <QuazarGuy> aye
21:15:54 * alex votes aye
21:15:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
21:16:02 <TeamColtra> Ayes have it
21:16:03 <Rath> 9-0
21:16:03 * WebGuest65 abstains.
21:16:18 <owen> abstain.
21:16:19 <TeamColtra> Now, lets discuss what we are going to do
21:16:20 <D-USA> I also think that Rath should handle it, lol
21:16:39 <K`Tetch> RAth and D-USA are currently the only legal represenatives of the party
21:16:41 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol yeah, make her do it! :-P
21:16:42 <TeamColtra> we have two options... but ones not really an option... We have criminal (which is what this is) and we need rath to contact FBI, or Civil and we need an attourny
21:17:13 <Rath> I will contact the FBI tomorrow morning?
21:17:16 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> We need an attorney, but not for this unless he contests it I think
21:17:22 <TeamColtra> All in favor of supporting Rath calling the FBI and filing a formal complaint say aye.
21:17:28 <D-USA> well, if he contests it he would be contesting against the FBI, not us
21:17:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
21:17:33 <TeamColtra> Aye
21:17:39 <owen> I think email would be better, personally.
21:17:42 <owen> but contact in some way, aye.
21:17:52 <Rush> email is too easy to "lose"
21:17:57 <Rath> Yeah, something.
21:17:59 <owen> Either way.
21:18:00 <owen> aye.
21:18:07 <Pugnax> aye
21:18:21 <WebGuest65> aye
21:18:28 <Rush> aye
21:18:44 <D-USA> aye
21:18:47 <Rath> Aye
21:19:13 <QuazarGuy> aye
21:19:18 <alex> Aye
21:19:22 <Rath> Alright. So, motion passed
21:19:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Woot!
21:19:34 <Rath> Any other things for this topic, or can we move on to three?
21:19:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Related to above - discuss 5-year ban on Mr Martin, for actions contrary to the interests of the party.
21:19:41 <Rath> Related to the last - discuss 5-year ban on Mr Martin, for actions contrary to the interests of the party.
21:19:45 <owen> Any I'm up for moving on.
21:19:49 <owen> *I'm
21:19:50 <Rath> Aww, way to steal my thunder, Kidd xP
21:20:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol sorry sorry my bad!
21:20:09 <K`Tetch> ok my proposal
21:20:10 <owen> Again, I think this is premature.
21:20:12 <Rath> No worries =)
21:20:46 <TeamColtra> I vote against this
21:20:49 <K`Tetch> since he has acting against the party (neccesitating the removal from office) and then again, by his actions afterwards, he has shown no dsire to help or support the party
21:20:57 <QuazarGuy> We should at least get our access back first
21:21:08 <K`Tetch> and thus should be prevented from even holding the rank of member
21:21:31 <owen> This is something that should be done when the situation surrounding him is more stable...
21:21:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> QuazarGuy: well he isn't giving it to us despite requests by the Admin
21:21:31 <Rath> I don't think getting into the practice of banning people from membership is a good idea.
21:21:45 <owen> I don't see a need for a vote now, though.
21:21:48 <Pugnax> I'm not sure lifetime bans are a good idea
21:21:49 <K`Tetch> these are exceptional circumstances
21:21:53 <K`Tetch> not lifetime, 5 year
21:22:06 <Rath> Perhaps banning them from elected office, but I think that after people know about what's gone on, there's an unlikely chance that he'll be elected.
21:22:10 <QuazarGuy> perhaps just a ban from office
21:22:13 <Pugnax> "prevention from becoming a member" seems like liftetime, unless there is indeed a clock on it
21:22:15 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Yeah, i'm gonna say that we just take the, ya know, calling the FBI thing as a general consensus that we don't want him in the party
21:22:15 <Pugnax> lifetime*
21:22:16 <K`Tetch> and it's pretty hard to have done more to 'feck' everything up
21:22:22 <TeamColtra> I would support a ban from office if anything
21:22:29 <TeamColtra> but I don't think thats really required either
21:22:48 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> banning from office at least yeah
21:22:49 <alex> I don't support banning him.
21:22:56 <owen> I'm for tabling this.
21:22:57 <TeamColtra> nor do I
21:23:01 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> since right now all you need is an account at the site to vote
21:23:02 <TeamColtra> I object
21:23:03 <QuazarGuy> we'll always accept his money
21:23:04 * Rath moves to table this topic, for this meeting, at very least.
21:23:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> that's safe
21:23:13 * Rush votes aye
21:23:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
21:23:17 <D-USA> do we have a provision for bannign in the constitution, officer or otherwise?
21:23:20 <K`Tetch> ok, table for a month?
21:23:20 * owen votes aye
21:23:20 <Rath> I need a second, first xP
21:23:24 <Rath> Not that I know of, D-USA
21:23:25 <TeamColtra> lol I was going to say
21:23:28 * Pugnax abstains
21:23:34 * Rush seconds the motion
21:23:36 <TeamColtra> we don't even ahve a second, but then again, we are not using roberts rules
21:23:37 <QuazarGuy> abstain
21:23:39 <TeamColtra> so it doesn't matter :P
21:23:52 <owen> http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Veto_Consensus_Method Is the rules we're going by, AFAIK
21:24:15 <TeamColtra> I respectfully widthdraw my objection
21:24:24 <TeamColtra> and also vote in favor of tabling this until later
21:24:37 <K`Tetch> ok, table for a month then?
21:24:39 * Rath votes aye
21:24:41 <owen> aye
21:24:43 <TeamColtra> aye
21:24:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
21:24:52 <K`Tetch> aye on table for a month
21:25:05 <WebGuest65> aye
21:25:24 <QuazarGuy> abstain
21:25:25 * alex votes aye
21:25:33 <Rath> The ayes have it.
21:25:34 * D-USA votes aye
21:25:38 * Pugnax abstains
21:25:41 <TeamColtra> lol someone says aye and everyone just starts voting half the people not even sure what they are voting on ;)
21:25:56 <Rath> 9-0-2
21:26:05 * Rush aye
21:26:06 <owen> TeamColtra: I'm pretty damn sure that I just voted for tabling it for a month. :-P
21:26:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra: assumptions sir, we are smarter than we...uh....vote?
21:26:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :-P
21:26:24 <TeamColtra> owen, no you voted to give me your left kidney
21:26:29 <TeamColtra> aye
21:26:30 <TeamColtra> ;)
21:26:36 <D-USA> I call dips on his right kidney
21:26:37 <Rath> It wasn't specified when I motioned and Rush seconded. If people don't want it back up, don't suggest it for the agenda
21:26:38 <Rath> Ok
21:26:42 <Rath> On to topic 4
21:26:54 <Rath> Make sure people know that we aren't the PPUS, but rather the USPP. A lot of people have been erroneously using the PPUS acronym lately.
21:26:55 <owen> What IS our official acronym?
21:26:57 <Rath> wat
21:27:00 <Rath> Ok
21:27:05 <Rath> This goes back to the tax status
21:27:06 <Rush> what??
21:27:11 <Rath> The original entity was PPUS
21:27:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Tax status issue
21:27:17 <Rath> But people lost the passwords and created the USPP
21:27:24 <K`Tetch> not lost it, never had it
21:27:25 <owen> So now it _is_ USPP
21:27:25 <Rath> One of my projects is to merge the two
21:27:26 <Rush> I have always said PPUS
21:27:28 <Rath> Ah, ok
21:27:34 <Rath> My understanding was that it was lost
21:27:35 <Rath> Anyways
21:27:41 <Rath> The IRS knows us as the USPP
21:27:43 <owen> PPUS, USPP.
21:27:44 <K`Tetch> we can't merge, because we couldn't obtain the passwords
21:27:45 <Rush> I mean the website is Pirate-Party.US, PPUS
21:27:48 <owen> Tomato, tomato.
21:28:00 <K`Tetch> iirc, Ray's address was the listed mail address, but he lost his home before he got the password
21:28:07 <D-USA> are we the WWWPPUS
21:28:08 <K`Tetch> IRS mail can't be forwarded (security)
21:28:16 <Rath> Yes, that's the story I've heard, K'tetch.
21:28:18 <K`Tetch> and we can't change the address, without the password
21:28:25 <Rath> So right now, technically, we are the USPP
21:28:32 <K`Tetch> we are both
21:28:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ugh
21:28:39 <K`Tetch> PPUS should be linnked in the tax flings
21:28:42 <owen> I don't really care what people call us.
21:28:44 <K`Tetch> filing
21:28:47 <Rush> I actually considered chewing my table right now
21:28:49 <K`Tetch> but USPP is fine
21:28:52 <alex> I don't like PPUS.
21:28:52 <Rath> I believe it is.
21:29:01 <owen> Who added that? :-P
21:29:02 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well it's not so much what people call us more than it is a legal issue \
21:29:08 <TeamColtra> Once again, if we get someone who knows accounting and such, they probably know how to get this taken care of
21:29:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> i think
21:29:16 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> CPA!
21:29:18 <owen> Legally we ARE the USPP, yes?
21:29:29 <TeamColtra> I am sure we are not the first person in IRS history to not get their password
21:29:41 <TeamColtra> or for the person who was to get a password to have moved/lost their home/etc before they got it
21:29:42 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Want me to get a quote before we get the tax papers from Ryan?
21:30:00 <TeamColtra> <owen> Legally we ARE the USPP, yes? <-- legally both
21:30:01 <owen> Who put this in the agenda?
21:30:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I just need someone who knows ALL the details about the tax situation to lay it out in an email
21:30:20 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - I just laid it out as best I know
21:30:25 <K`Tetch> the onyl one who might know any better is Ray
21:30:32 <K`Tetch> and he's not exactly easy to contact
21:30:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Ok, so we don't know what we are
21:30:46 <owen> Oh, Haplo did.
21:30:47 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> because only Ryan knows
21:30:53 <owen> I believe.
21:31:02 <owen> And Haplo is... away.
21:31:09 <owen> Haplo|Away
21:31:09 <K`Tetch> http://forms.irs.gov/politicalOrgsSearch/search/Print.action?formId=47661&formType=E71 is our latest filing
21:31:14 <K`Tetch> but 14a doesn't list the association
21:31:43 <K`Tetch> this one, filed by glenn in october, does - http://forms.irs.gov/politicalOrgsSearch/search/Print.action?formId=46907&formType=E71
21:31:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Perfect KTech!
21:31:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> give me all of the links you have then
21:32:06 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I can bring it to the guy when I get paid on Friday
21:32:07 <K`Tetch> I already deailed how to find them
21:32:12 <owen> Back on topic -
21:32:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we are on topic
21:32:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> h/o one sec
21:32:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Ok, KTech, please refresh my memory
21:32:47 <K`Tetch> done in pm
21:32:47 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> with links, with all that type of tax stuff
21:32:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ah ok
21:33:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> then meeting continue i guess
21:33:30 <Rath> Ok, so.. is there anything we really need to vote on for this topic?
21:33:34 <K`Tetch> no
21:33:36 <Rath> Or just move on to five?
21:33:37 <owen> I move to reject this proposal. I don't really mind whether random people call us PPUS or USPP.
21:33:45 <K`Tetch> there has been no proposal
21:34:01 <Rath> Make sure people know that we aren't the PPUS, but rather the USPP. A lot of people have been erroneously using the PPUS acronym lately.
21:34:02 <owen> I thought "Make sure people know that we aren't the PPUS, but rather the USPP"
21:34:07 <owen> constituted one...
21:34:08 <Rath> There's nothing actually proposed
21:34:09 <Rush> it's not a proposal, it's a legal thing
21:34:13 <K`Tetch> legally, uspp is correct
21:34:27 <owen> Haplo put it there, and I think he was talking about a semantic thing.
21:34:31 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, legally both are correct no?
21:34:31 <owen> Not the legal situation.
21:34:35 <owen> Just what random people call us.
21:34:40 -!- alex_mobile!~user@96B65365.90C74007.331FCC18.IP has joined #meeting
21:34:41 <K`Tetch> yes, sorta, TeamColtra
21:34:45 <TeamColtra> Name of organization Employer identification number
21:34:46 <TeamColtra> United States Pirate Party 27 - 0331986
21:34:50 <K`Tetch> but uspp is 'more' correct
21:34:53 <owen> United States Pirate Party.
21:34:53 -!- Pugnax is now known as Pugnax|afk
21:34:54 <owen> USPP.
21:35:04 <owen> DOn't really care much, seriously. Let's move on.
21:35:28 <Rath> Let's go ahead and move on that, all?
21:35:34 <TeamColtra> owen, if this is a legal matter... then we can't really skip it
21:35:40 <owen> TeamColtra, it's NOT
21:35:45 <owen> "Make sure people know that we aren't the PPUS, but rather the USPP. A lot of people have been erroneously using the PPUS acronym lately.
21:35:47 <owen> "
21:35:53 <D-USA> If all our filling says USPP, then we need to use USPP
21:35:53 <owen> He's talking about random people calling us that!
21:35:59 <Rath> There's not much we can do right now anyways
21:36:12 <TeamColtra> owen, just because its said wrong on the meeting points
21:36:17 <TeamColtra> doesn't mean its not an important issue
21:36:25 <owen> Rath, please just veto this, it's irrelevant.
21:36:41 <owen> Or somebody just move to tell everyone to say USPP from now on.
21:36:53 <D-USA> Owen, it is the same as if people are running around calling ourselves the APP
21:36:54 <owen> Haplo's away, and we can't read his mind, but I think that was his intent.
21:36:56 <D-USA> it's the wrong name
21:37:03 -!- QuazarGuy!~QuazarGuy@6E3597CB.159E13A.8A0847BF.IP has quit: (Quit: QuazarGuy)
21:37:04 <Rath> We can say we're the USPP until the cows come home, but we also have a filing with the IRS under the PPUS, which we have no ability to fix at the moment.
21:37:22 <D-USA> The only filing "we" have access to is the USPP one AFAIK
21:37:25 <owen> Which is a problem that isn't the same as the one on the agenda.
21:37:35 <Rath> We don't even have access to that right now :|
21:37:42 <Rush> Until Ryan hands the things over, we can't change anything
21:37:44 -!- alex_mobile!~user@96B65365.90C74007.331FCC18.IP has quit: (Ping timeout)
21:37:49 <Rush> we're a political party in exile
21:37:55 <TeamColtra> Okay so we will table this until next time?
21:37:57 <D-USA> Rath is the Dalai Rathma
21:37:58 * owen proposes to encourage party members and officers to use the term USPP
21:38:07 <Rath> lul
21:38:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Wait, Ryan filed under the name PPUS?
21:38:09 <owen> Let's just vote and move on
21:38:09 <Rath> Seconded
21:38:15 * owen votes AYE
21:38:15 <K`Tetch> no CaPtAiN_KiDd
21:38:22 <TeamColtra> owen, your missing the point
21:38:23 <K`Tetch> Ray filed under that name 3 years ago
21:38:31 * Rush votes aye
21:38:38 <owen> TeamColtra: No, I'm not, you're misreading the agenda, lol
21:38:43 <K`Tetch> Glenn filed under the new name
21:38:44 <TeamColtra> The agenda is worded wrong
21:38:53 <owen> You didn't write it, did you?
21:39:02 <owen> I don't think Haplo was writing about our tax status,
21:39:10 <TeamColtra> Fine I will put the proper wording on next months agenda
21:39:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Ok, so both tax forms I just saw have been filed already right?
21:39:15 <owen> I think someone wrote PPUS on pirate-party.us and it bugged him!
21:39:15 * D-USA votes aye on moving that members and officers use the proper USPP
21:39:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and the IRS accepted it?
21:39:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
21:39:27 <Rath> Folks, we've got a vote on the table. Please hold conversations
21:39:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> in PM KTech
21:39:42 <WebGuest65> aye
21:40:01 <Rath> Aye
21:40:09 * alex votes aye
21:40:10 <Rush> aye
21:40:17 <Rath> 7, I think?
21:40:21 <owen> Okay, is that through?
21:40:23 <owen> Sure.
21:40:26 <Rath> Yes
21:40:27 <K`Tetch> aye
21:40:29 <owen> Okay, everybody use USPP from now on. :-P
21:40:37 <owen> There, you've been encouraged. Next?
21:40:39 <Rath> K
21:40:44 <Rath> Last item
21:40:44 <Rath> Consideration of using an amended version of Roberts Rules of Order for USPP meetings.
21:40:55 <owen> TeamColtra, btw, we can talk about the IRS situation after the agenda's finished.
21:40:56 <Rath> The amended version is http://pirate-party.us/content/proposal-roberts-rules
21:41:02 <owen> I just want to get through it first.
21:41:12 <Rath> Yes, please talk about it to your heart's content afterwards
21:41:21 <D-USA> I think RRO can be consolidated with the current practice of veto-consensus
21:41:23 <Rath> I'm just trying to get this finished so I can pay attention to class xP
21:41:26 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Now I have to change my clan tag in Call of Duty MW2
21:41:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> great :-P
21:41:53 <D-USA> Let me make a quick proposal, then talk about it:
21:42:07 <D-USA> here are my thoughts:
21:42:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> "amended" Robert's Rules without doing the amendments today in one shot but rather as we go along is what I propose for this
21:42:48 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, I support this
21:42:49 <TeamColtra> :D
21:43:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> sweet :-)
21:43:21 <D-USA> we need to have some way to keep order during the meetings
21:43:29 <Rath> Yeah
21:43:31 <D-USA> people are always talking over each other, randomly calling for votes
21:43:40 <Rath> 'Cause you lot are a rambunctious group xD
21:43:46 <D-USA> we need to have an open meeting where everyone can talk, but we need to organize it better as well
21:43:56 <Rush> ventrillo
21:43:59 <TeamColtra> http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Roberts_Rules_of_Order
21:44:09 <TeamColtra> This was my full proposal
21:44:14 <TeamColtra> for people who would like to read it over
21:44:16 <Rush> or we could meet in CoD
21:44:25 <owen> No voice, dear god!
21:44:29 <owen> Text chat, PLEASE
21:44:35 <owen> For formal meetings, at least.
21:44:43 <D-USA> I like the idea of giving everybody voice, but making it a moderated room, so we have the option of taking voice away if needed
21:44:56 <TeamColtra> ;) I can't stand CaPtAiN_KiDd as it is... let alone hearing him talk
21:45:11 <D-USA> I don't want to ban people during meetings. If we can take away voice, that person can at least still see the meeting
21:45:12 <owen> Stay classy, TeamColtra...
21:45:18 <Rush> I agree Coltra
21:45:31 <Rush> sorry to say it Kidd, but you talk at 90 miles a minute
21:45:37 <Rath> srsly
21:45:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol sorry
21:45:46 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> dude, 1650 LSAT
21:45:49 <K`Tetch> the way the ppi does their meetings is the board have voice, and the room is moderated, as people request to speak, they're voiced
21:45:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> they train me that way
21:46:01 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, that was my idea
21:46:14 <TeamColtra> only I was thinking of giving everyone voice unless they talk out of turn
21:46:26 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I can slow down for formal meetings, trust me, but when gettin gthings done like party affairs outside of meetings,
21:46:27 <Rush> Kidd, 1650 is not an LSAT score
21:46:31 <D-USA> If we stay with everybody having voice, we need to make sure that only the officers move between topics in the agenda, only officers call votes, and officers count votes
21:46:32 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I talk fast
21:46:36 <Rush> I believe 180 is the highest
21:46:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> friggin SAT
21:46:50 <Rath> It is, Rush
21:46:52 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I'm taking a GRE
21:46:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> not an LSAT anymore
21:47:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I get the numbers mixed up
21:47:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and GRE i think is 1000
21:47:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> 165
21:47:16 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> sorry
21:47:16 <Rath> Ok
21:47:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol
21:47:17 <Rath> So
21:47:20 <Rush> my LSAT score was 144
21:47:20 <Rath> Back to RRO
21:47:30 <D-USA> there is a great example of needing to stay on topic, lol
21:47:34 <Rath> Yes
21:47:36 <Rath> Exactly
21:47:45 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rush: get it over 155 and go for it dude :-)
21:47:49 <Rath> You people and your extraneous conversations
21:47:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> k
21:47:54 -!- alex is now known as alex|away
21:47:54 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> order
21:47:56 <TeamColtra> I move to pass the text that is on http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Roberts_Rules_of_Order
21:47:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> agenda
21:47:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lets go
21:48:02 <Rath> Seconded
21:48:07 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> third
21:48:13 <D-USA> which part?
21:48:14 <TeamColtra> I vote AYE
21:48:29 <Rath> All of it, I assume?
21:48:32 <K`Tetch> does the RRO conflict with the veto-consensus?
21:48:33 <TeamColtra> D-USA, the text in its fullness
21:48:33 <D-USA> the original proposal, or with all commends?
21:48:46 <D-USA> I don't think it voild K`Tetch
21:48:56 <D-USA> it would just make the veto-consensus more orderly
21:49:09 <K`Tetch> seems everything after 2 would
21:49:24 <K`Tetch> the commit, table indefinitely
21:49:25 <K`Tetch> etc
21:50:00 <D-USA> how about this: Let's make a formal, full written proposal, consolidating RRO with veto-consensus, present it at the beginning of the next meeting, and vote on it
21:50:12 <K`Tetch> ok
21:50:15 <owen> Sounds good.
21:50:16 <Rath> I'd be cool with that.
21:50:30 <Rath> Who would be responsible for this?
21:50:31 <owen> K`Tetch and TeamColtra, can you guys do that?
21:50:32 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> word
21:50:32 <D-USA> by making it first in the next meeting, it can then be used after/if it passes
21:50:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> brilliant!
21:50:44 <owen> You seem the most knowledgable about the respective systems.
21:51:00 <D-USA> I can work with Coltra and K`Tetch as the factions of RRO and VC
21:51:30 <Rush> my RRO book just came in yesterday, I've not had a chance to peruse it
21:51:31 <D-USA> K`Tetch knows VC very well, Coltra knows RRO well, and I can make them get along, lol
21:51:46 <owen> Alright, you three do that for the next meeting.
21:51:51 <Rath> K'Tetch, TeamColtra are you both up for that?
21:52:03 -!- Pugnax|afk is now known as Pugnax
21:52:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> maybe a channel for them.....and others?
21:52:10 <owen> wb, Pugnax
21:52:14 <Pugnax> Danke
21:52:20 <Pugnax> thank you
21:52:39 <TeamColtra> I can do that
21:52:45 <TeamColtra> We don't need a channe;
21:52:47 <Rush> dich welkommen
21:52:47 <TeamColtra> just work on the wiki
21:52:58 <TeamColtra> but I think that RRO can over rule VC
21:52:59 <D-USA> Bitte is the correct term Rush
21:53:01 <TeamColtra> and still work just fine
21:53:03 <Rush> oops
21:53:04 <Rath> K'Tetch
21:53:06 <TeamColtra> its like using GNOME instead of KDE
21:53:09 <Rush> Ihre papire, bitte
21:53:16 <Pugnax> Ausweise?
21:53:20 <K`Tetch> ok
21:53:33 <Pugnax> ohne -e
21:53:42 <D-USA> Allright, I'll make those two reach an agreement. Us Germans are good at making people see eye-to-eye
21:54:14 <Rush> lol
21:54:16 <Rush> jawhol
21:54:22 <Pugnax> Also what did I miss?
21:54:29 <Rush> (nein)
21:54:33 <D-USA> so we will present a proposal at the next meeting
21:54:40 * Rath moves to create a group tasked to rework Roberts Rules of Order to comply with the veto-consensus system and present it to the Party for the next meeting.
21:54:42 <owen> Pugnax, not sure, lol.
21:54:44 <owen> aye
21:54:52 <Rath> Seconds?
21:54:54 <TeamColtra> I object Rath
21:55:06 <TeamColtra> RR already incorporate most of the ideas of VC
21:55:07 <Rath> Whoops, forgot to name them
21:55:22 <owen> TeamColtra, vote nay and move on
21:55:25 <Rath> Erm. What were you three going to be doing then?
21:55:26 <TeamColtra> Its not a vote
21:55:28 <TeamColtra> she needs a second
21:55:33 <owen> second.
21:55:35 <TeamColtra> and I already objected
21:55:36 <D-USA> We HAVE to use VC
21:55:45 <TeamColtra> D-USA, why? OOC
21:55:46 <owen> It's in the damn constitution, TeamColtra
21:55:47 <D-USA> we cannot ammend or ignore VC
21:56:00 <owen> Read the thing if you haven't!
21:56:02 <TeamColtra> owen, your agression isn't needed
21:56:04 <D-USA> lol
21:56:11 <D-USA> keep it civil guys
21:56:23 <TeamColtra> Okay so we will form RR around VC
21:56:27 <D-USA> but yeah, the VC is in our constitution as the format to be used
21:56:33 <Rath> k
21:56:35 <owen> let's vote, then.
21:56:37 <Rath> So
21:56:38 <TeamColtra> Aye
21:56:39 <Rath> Owen seconded
21:56:41 <D-USA> I personally like it, but I think that RRO can be used to streamline it and make it smooth
21:56:43 <owen> aye
21:56:43 <Rath> All in favor, aye?
21:56:45 <Rath> Aye
21:56:49 <owen> aye
21:56:50 * D-USA votes aye
21:56:55 * alex|away votes aye
21:56:57 <WebGuest65> aye
21:56:57 <K`Tetch> aye
21:57:06 * Pugnax abstains
21:57:19 * Rush votes aye
21:57:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
21:57:27 <Rath> 8-0-1
21:57:46 <Rath> 9-0-1
21:57:48 <TeamColtra> Anyone who would like to ammend RRO can just do so on http://memwiki.pirate-party.us/index.php?title=Roberts_Rules_of_Order
21:57:57 <TeamColtra> please use the talk page to explain what you did
21:58:01 <owen> Okay, so before we adjourn the meeting,
21:58:16 <owen> we ought to schedule the next, so it's non-emergency, because we always forget.
21:58:21 <D-USA> TeamColtra: Thats why I wanted to work with you and K`Tetch as representatives of both options
21:58:27 <TeamColtra> Point of Order :P Its my birthday on the 15th, so everyone should be nice to me ^.^
21:58:28 <D-USA> to present a compromise
21:58:46 <D-USA> at the next meeting
21:58:50 <D-USA> which we need a date for
21:59:04 <Rath> How about the next meeting on the 15th or 17th?
21:59:21 <Rath> Please not a Tuesday or Thursday. Running a meeting during a Philosophy class is insane.
21:59:29 <TeamColtra> lol
21:59:41 <Pugnax> lol, phil
21:59:42 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> We'll call the other Pirates from the back to come out and sing for your birthday then
21:59:44 <TeamColtra> Okay do we want to hold the next meeting on the 2nd?
21:59:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :-P
21:59:56 <D-USA> Monday I am in training for the Fire Department, so I cannot even be online
22:00:00 <Rush> March 2nd?
22:00:01 <D-USA> every monday
22:00:11 <Rath> Ok
22:00:12 <TeamColtra> err the first
22:00:12 <Rath> So
22:00:13 <Rath> The 17th?
22:00:19 <Rath> Wednesday the 17th?
22:00:24 <TeamColtra> How about every other monday?
22:00:34 <Rath> <D-USA>: every monday
22:00:37 <D-USA> I won't be able to make any meetings on monday
22:00:38 <TeamColtra> That would be the 15th
22:00:41 <TeamColtra> 8th
22:00:43 <TeamColtra> 15th
22:00:44 <Rath> We won't have quorum.
22:00:44 <TeamColtra> 22nd
22:00:45 <owen> Bah
22:00:48 <D-USA> lol
22:00:49 <Rath> 17th?
22:00:53 <owen> 9th!
22:00:53 <D-USA> Tuesday is really my best day
22:00:54 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we have to hold a meeting before the election time we voted on
22:00:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> or during
22:01:01 <owen> Every tuesday.
22:01:07 <owen> And especially the 9th, for election reasons.
22:01:07 <D-USA> Wednesdays I might make it, but only from work, so a lot of AFK for me
22:01:13 <Rush> same bat-time, same bat-channel
22:01:18 <Rath> Hm
22:01:29 <D-USA> I have the same problem on Wednesday that Rath has on Tuesday, lol
22:01:34 <Rath> lul
22:01:38 <owen> Meh...
22:01:42 <owen> Thursdays?
22:01:43 <D-USA> I might actually not make it online if I'm at work
22:01:47 <D-USA> saving lives and what not
22:01:47 <Rath> I have a test on the 16th anyways
22:01:57 <Rath> Thursdays are worse =x
22:02:05 <D-USA> Monday and Tuesdays are my only guaranteed days away from work, and monday I spend at the Fire Department
22:02:12 <Rath> Pfft, lives
22:02:29 <D-USA> lol
22:02:29 <Rath> Oy
22:02:31 <TeamColtra> I vote every other monday
22:02:38 <Rath> D-USA won't be here, TC
22:02:45 <Rath> He won't be here on /any/ Monday
22:02:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> We need weekly meetings
22:03:03 <Rush> it used to be every other week
22:03:04 <Rath> We'll get to that point
22:03:11 <Rath> It used to be half past never, too
22:03:12 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, I think every other week should be just fine
22:03:15 <Rath> We're making steps
22:03:29 <owen> Every week
22:03:30 <TeamColtra> We are not doing that much that we NEED weekly meetings
22:03:35 <owen> But we can talk about that later, I have stuff to do
22:03:41 <Rush> as do I
22:03:46 <Rath> As do I.
22:03:47 <Rath> So
22:03:49 <D-USA> I wouldn't mind a meeting every other week, but they would last even longer than they do now
22:03:49 <Rath> Next meeting
22:03:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra: it's fine if we're not doing things like, i dunno, calling the FBI, but for now I think weekly should be held
22:03:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :-)
22:04:05 <owen> Let's go day-by-day, monday on.
22:04:07 <TeamColtra> Okay lets all give a 1st and 2nd option for days
22:04:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I gotta bounce though, are we adjourned?
22:04:17 <TeamColtra> no we need to know what day is best
22:04:22 <Rath> We're figuring out a meeting day, Kidd
22:04:22 <TeamColtra> unless we are just going to discuss that
22:04:27 <owen> Anything but Friday/Saturday/Sunday
22:04:30 <TeamColtra> outside of meeting
22:04:31 <Rush> wednesday?
22:04:33 <D-USA> We need to set the meeting before we adjurn
22:04:40 <owen> Wednesday's fine for me.
22:04:41 <TeamColtra> My best days is Sunday-Mondy
22:04:52 <TeamColtra> but wednesday works too
22:04:52 <TeamColtra> :D
22:04:52 <K`Tetch> we ran a survey in december, and tuesdays were hte overwhelming winner
22:04:57 -!- alex|away is now known as alex
22:05:08 <D-USA> Tuesday is pretty much the only day that has no conflict
22:05:09 <K`Tetch> friday/sat/sun are all but impossible for me
22:05:15 <Rath> Oy.
22:05:17 <TeamColtra> tuesday doesn't work well for our admin though
22:05:18 <Rath> Ok, Tuesday
22:05:19 <owen> This is just scheduling for the next meeting, mind you.
22:05:23 <D-USA> Monday is impossible for me, all other days are big problems
22:05:30 <TeamColtra> and that kinda would suck for our meetings if our admin can't even pay attention because seh is in class
22:05:37 <Rath> Earlier would be bad for people, I imagine?
22:05:38 <D-USA> once we have more officers we don't have to worry about Quorum
22:05:47 <Rath> True dat ^
22:05:48 <D-USA> Earlier would work for me
22:05:53 <owen> Earlier in the day would be fine by me, just not *too* much earlier.
22:05:54 <D-USA> but our meetings tend to drag on
22:05:54 <D-USA> lol
22:05:59 <TeamColtra> Rath, what time works best for you?
22:06:07 <D-USA> (we are at 2 hours right now)
22:06:08 <TeamColtra> OOC
22:06:09 <Rath> Two hours earlier?
22:06:14 <owen> EST please
22:06:16 <owen> 6 EST?
22:06:17 <Rath> 4 pm EST?
22:06:26 <owen> No, that's 6
22:06:28 <owen> it's 8 now.
22:06:28 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Work 4-8
22:06:30 <Rath> We started at 6 EST, didn't we?
22:06:31 <D-USA> We are starting at 8 EST right now
22:06:35 <Rath> Oh
22:06:36 <Rath> Ok
22:06:38 <Rath> 6PM EST
22:06:41 <owen> 8's late as hell
22:06:41 <Rath> Would be amazing
22:06:48 <owen> CaPtAiN_KiDd can't make it then, meh
22:06:59 <K`Tetch> 6pm est makes it 3pm pacific
22:07:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I made my schedule so I can make meetings on tuesday
22:07:15 <Rath> Oy
22:07:23 <D-USA> how long is your schedule set for KiDd?
22:07:48 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> from 8 onward since that's what was told to me from Brad when I first started participating
22:07:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> 8pm Eastern
22:08:07 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> thought I would be in an officer's position so I made arrangements
22:08:09 <TeamColtra> We are going to have to make some form of concession
22:08:12 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :-/
22:08:25 <D-USA> let's meed at midnight
22:08:31 <D-USA> even at work I can pay attention by then
22:08:32 <TeamColtra> LOL
22:08:32 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol awesome
22:08:33 <D-USA> lol
22:08:41 <TeamColtra> i think 3AM works better for me
22:08:45 <Rath> If it's much later than 6 PM EST, I'll have to leave halfway
22:08:46 <Rath> lawl
22:08:53 <alex> Night is a good time for Pirates to meet. :-D
22:09:00 <TeamColtra> Lets all admit it... everyone is at home at 3AM
22:09:05 <TeamColtra> :P
22:09:08 <Pugnax> I'm working at 3am
22:09:11 <Rath> Your logic is flawless, TC.
22:09:13 <Rath> Or not
22:09:20 <Rath> Ok
22:09:21 <Rath> So
22:09:21 <Rath> Times
22:09:22 <TeamColtra> Pugnax, well you will just have to be excluded
22:09:24 <D-USA> I work at 3am, but I can log in from work when we are slow
22:09:50 <Pugnax> I work from home
22:09:52 <owen> http://www.doodle.com/wzb4ndcg3vhhdatu
22:09:54 <Pugnax> no probs
22:10:05 <Rath> What time do we want to have meetings at?
22:10:25 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> you ask that expecting everyone to give a same time lol
22:10:36 <owen> 5 to 8
22:10:39 <Rath> Nah, just actual answers
22:10:40 <Rush> I'm still for 8PM est
22:10:41 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Everybody made it here tonight
22:10:43 <Rath> They're all over the place
22:10:47 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> but....
22:10:48 <Rush> earlier than that is no good for me
22:10:56 <owen> CaPtAiN_KiDd, it's painful, lol
22:11:03 <owen> we're going so SLOWLY
22:11:12 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so how about 10 or 11pm Eastern on tuesdays?
22:11:20 <Rath> :D
22:11:23 <owen> Nooo
22:11:23 <Rath> I like that idea
22:11:26 <Rush> how about 9PM
22:11:38 <D-USA> Later would work better than earlier for me
22:11:38 <Rath> What time is it now EST?
22:11:39 <alex> I'm good any time, but the later the better for me.
22:11:44 <owen> Urg, even 9 is late.
22:11:46 <D-USA> It is 10pm EST right now rath
22:11:48 <Rush> it's 10:11 est
22:11:53 <Rath> k
22:11:59 <owen> I'm not super enthused about starting past 8, but I'd come.
22:12:05 <D-USA> what time is your class over Rath?
22:12:15 <Rath> It's 6:30-9, lul
22:12:23 <Rath> It's not a big deal if it's shorter
22:12:32 <Rath> But this meeting has been like trying to herd cats
22:12:33 <D-USA> the meeting is never short
22:12:45 <Rush> herding cats is easy with the right dosage
22:12:49 <D-USA> and if we hold it every two weeks, there will be more on the agenda
22:12:52 <Rath> And I either don't pay enough attention to you cats
22:12:58 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> 9pm Eastern I can do
22:13:02 <Rath> Or to the philosophy discussion that I'm going to get tested on
22:13:14 <Pugnax> What phil class?
22:13:24 <Rath> Intro to ethics
22:13:29 <Rush> lol
22:13:31 <Pugnax> Ethics is simple
22:13:40 <Pugnax> Classic, deontological, etc
22:13:40 <Rath> lul
22:13:40 <Rath> OK
22:14:19 <Rath> And I'm totally lost on what's going on now
22:14:20 <Rath> Awesome
22:14:23 <Rath> Ok
22:14:24 <Rath> Tuesdays
22:14:30 <Rath> Weekly or bi-weekly?
22:14:38 <D-USA> let's just worry about next week, lol
22:14:49 <Rath> I can go with that
22:14:52 <Rath> k
22:14:58 <TeamColtra> biweekly
22:15:02 <Rath> The 9th?
22:15:05 <owen> fine, fine.
22:15:08 <D-USA> yeah, what time?
22:15:09 <owen> The 9th, though.
22:15:12 <owen> 9 PM?
22:15:21 <D-USA> 9pm EST? 10pm EST?
22:15:34 <D-USA> what makes live a little easier for Rath
22:15:37 <Rath> 9PM works
22:15:45 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> k 9pm
22:15:47 <Rath> 10 I'd have to leave halfway through
22:15:52 <D-USA> okay
22:15:55 <TeamColtra> All in in favor?
22:16:00 <Rath> Yes
22:16:03 <D-USA> Meeting on February 9th, 9pm EST
22:16:06 <owen> aye
22:16:07 <Pugnax> aye
22:16:08 <TeamColtra> aye
22:16:09 * Rush votes aye
22:16:09 <D-USA> aye
22:16:12 * alex votes aye
22:16:18 <Rath> Sorry for the trouble guys <3 I have the gall to try and get an education, for whatever reason
22:16:19 <Rath> Aye
22:16:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
22:16:32 <TeamColtra> damn you Rath
22:16:35 <TeamColtra> and your "education"
22:16:40 <Rath> I know ;-;
22:16:49 <Rush> Coltra needs Re-Education
22:16:58 <Rush> and we've always been at war with East Asia
22:17:06 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah Rath, i'm done after this semester.....then another 4 years
22:17:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> the nerve of us
22:17:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> We've always been at war with East Asia Rush
22:17:37 <TeamColtra> Rush, I actually enroll tomorrow
22:17:39 <TeamColtra> in school
22:17:57 <Rush> wimpersnappers
22:18:04 <alex> Can we adjourn?
22:18:06 <owen> So now that we're all off-topic again
22:18:07 <Rath> Haha, Kidd. We rebels.
22:18:10 <owen> Yes, please!
22:18:13 <Rath> Yeah, I move to adjourn the meeting
22:18:19 * Rush votes aye
22:18:22 <TeamColtra> All in favor of adjournment?
22:18:27 <TeamColtra> Aye
22:18:27 <owen> aye
22:18:30 <K`Tetch> aye
22:18:34 * alex AYE!
22:18:41 * D-USA votes nay
22:18:45 <D-USA> this party must go on
22:18:48 * Pugnax votes aye
22:19:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye!!!!!!!!
22:19:24 <TeamColtra> /kick D-USA go have your own party
22:19:26 <TeamColtra> err ;)
22:19:40 <D-USA> don't fake kick the guy who can real kick you, young grasshopper
22:19:46 <D-USA> lol
22:19:49 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Officer David Bowie's Codpiece has no say in this :-P
22:19:56 <WebGuest65> aye
22:20:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well then, gnight!
22:20:09 <Rath> G'night all
22:20:12 -!- CaPtAiN_KiDd!~Jay@Name141-BFC757FA.dyn.optonline.net has left #meeting
22:20:14 <D-USA> night
22:20:15 <Rath> Thanks for coming =)
22:20:16 <WebGuest65> night, everyone
22:20:22 <owen> goodnight, everybody!
22:20:31 * TeamColtra has kicked D-USA from #meeting (hahaha)
22:20:33 -!- alex!~alex@ECFEC902.226D5169.DC885BFD.IP has left #meeting
22:20:36 <Rush> Goodnight and good luck!
