2010-02-09
From USPP Wiki
[edit] Agenda
- Consolidating Robert's Rules of Order with the veto-consensus system. (Marcus Kesler, Travis McCrea, and Andrew Norton)
- Require archiving for all emails of members acting in an official capacity on the behalf of the party, namely, but not exclusively, from the @pirate-party.us email domain name. (Brittany Phelps)
- Moving our IRC one final time to the official PPI server with the rest of the world. (Travis McCrea)
- Filling the remaining officer positions with those candidates who were running for them but were unopposed. (Jason Emerson)
- Response to USTR asking for ACTA input
[edit] Results
- The Party would like to make a change to the way we hold meeting by having a set structure based on Robert's Rules while still using veto consensus. (Passed with 7 votes)
- Archiving @pirate-party.us emails. All pirate-party.us emails shall be logged. (Passed with 8 votes).
- Moving the IRC channel to the official PPI server. (Motion Defeated, 5 nay votes).
- Filling remaining officer positions that are unopposed at end of nomination period. (Passed with 8 votes).
- Respond to USTR asking for ACTA input. (Passed with 6 votes).
[edit] Log
21:00:19 <TeamColtra> Okay
21:00:20 <TeamColtra> meeting time
21:00:31 <D-USA> is Rath back from her quiz?
21:00:43 <TeamColtra> ughhhh BRITTANY!
21:01:32 -!- WebGuest65!42f5de09@Name141-48FA9034.mibbit.com has joined #meeting
21:01:33 <TeamColtra> Are we allowed to go through roll call until she comes back?
21:01:52 <D-USA> we can do roll call
21:01:58 <TeamColtra> Okay
21:02:03 <Rush> the codpiece is an officer
21:02:06 <TeamColtra> Travis McCrea - Bethel Alaska
21:02:32 <Rush> Bradley Hall - Jacksonville Florida
21:02:42 <CaptBrianna> Shirley Runyon - Phoenix AZ
21:02:53 <D-USA> Marcus Kesler - Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
21:02:55 <K`Tetch> Andrew Norton - Shady Dale, ga
21:03:51 <WebGuest65> Benjamin Brumer - Woodland, CA
21:04:04 <Haplo> Tyler Hibbard - Carrollton, GA
21:05:12 <Spreadsheet> Tony Jiang, Evansville IN
21:05:23 <TeamColtra> Rath, CaPtAiN_KiDd
21:05:58 <Rath> Quiz still going on, so I can't respond much
21:06:05 <Rath> Brittany Phelps, AZ
21:06:11 <D-USA> just pretent you are here, for quorums sake
21:06:12 -!- AndChat!~AndChat@Name141-F666C252.tmodns.net has joined #meeting
21:06:16 <Rath> lul
21:06:19 <Rath> k
21:06:30 <D-USA> wan't me to run the meeting till you are free?
21:06:35 <Rath> Please
21:06:55 <TeamColtra> do we need CaPtAiN_KiDd to checkin first or can he do it whenever?
21:07:07 <D-USA> AndChat: name and location please?
21:08:06 <D-USA> well, we'll proceed for now
21:08:24 <Rush> Ivey-divey
21:08:28 <D-USA> Rath and myself are two officers, and we have more than two members present, so
that makes quorum
21:09:02 <D-USA> so I'll call the meeting to order
21:09:08 * D-USA hits the gavel
21:09:31 <D-USA> so off to the first item on the agenda
21:09:36 <TeamColtra> I would like to request that we move the first item
21:09:39 <TeamColtra> until later?
21:09:47 <Haplo> I have another meeting to go to -_- so I'll be abstaining from all votes unless I
come back to vote. Except I'd like to register my vote against moving the IRC server again.
21:09:50 <D-USA> how come?
21:09:54 -!- Haplo is now known as Haplo|Away
21:10:12 <TeamColtra> Because there is still something I am trying to work out on how it can work
21:10:31 <TeamColtra> I guess we can discuss it
21:10:56 <Rath> Kidd'll be back in a few anyways
21:10:59 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> back
21:11:05 <D-USA> Consolidating Robert's Rules of Order with the veto-consensus system.
21:11:06 <Rath> lawl
21:11:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Bank of America and other banks chargin overdraft fees by hitting you when
you're on the verge of 0
21:11:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I move to add to our platform
21:11:56 <D-USA> The basic attempt was using some sort of Robert's RUles of Order to help make our
meetings less rowdy, attempt to prevent hijacks of meetins
21:12:26 <TeamColtra> Basically what we need to do is find a happy medium between taking all voice
away from the membership
21:12:39 <TeamColtra> and giving membership freedom to run amok
21:12:47 <D-USA> Myself and TeamColtra have two different solutions
21:12:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Jason Emerson, NY, here
21:12:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol
21:13:16 <D-USA> I'll tell you mine, and then TeamColtra can tell you his
21:13:27 <D-USA> both preserve Veto Consensus
21:13:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so we startin?
21:13:39 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> started....?
21:13:42 <D-USA> yup
21:13:46 <D-USA> item 1
21:14:07 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ah well, there goes my motion to pass the unopposed positions before the
meeting
21:14:12 <Spreadsheet> What is the american pirate party?
21:14:16 <Spreadsheet> http://americanpirateparty.us/
21:14:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> cowards donny
21:14:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> nihlists
21:14:38 <D-USA> focus here
21:14:49 <TeamColtra> Spreadsheet, you ask questions in #uspirateparty
21:14:54 <TeamColtra> unless related to the subject
21:14:56 <Spreadsheet> TeamColtra: ok
21:15:35 <D-USA> my solution was to set mode to +m, give everyone voice and have the officer set
the topics. We go through the motions of Veto Consensus, making proposals, making objections, and
talking about one thing at a time
21:15:49 <D-USA> if things get rowdy officers can take voice away.
21:16:04 <D-USA> There would have to be a written down process for removing voice in order to keep
it fair
21:16:52 <D-USA> the main part being able to keep ourselves focused on only talking about the
current topic as set by the officer
21:17:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> what is "+m"
21:17:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ?
21:17:19 <Rath> Moderated
21:17:20 <TeamColtra> Moderated
21:17:21 <WebGuest65> Do you have an idea on what kind of process would be put in place to make it
fair?
21:17:36 <D-USA> that's what we would have to talk about and put in writing
21:17:39 <Rath> Means that only people with voice/+v can speak.
21:17:43 <TeamColtra> D-USA, are you finished with yours?
21:17:46 <D-USA> yeah
21:17:49 <TeamColtra> I feel a meeting should go like this: 1) We introduce all the items, and ask
if we need to rearrange it for any reason 2) We introduce the first item and ask for the person
who submitted it, or for a supporter to speak on it 3) we have questions for that person 4) we
allow someone against it to speak 5) we have questions for that person 6) we vote or make
amendments || 1 2 4 6(ish) will be +m and 3 5 will be -m
21:18:19 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> with Coltra
21:18:47 <TeamColtra> during the end of a speach the channel basically goes to unmoderated and
anyone can ask questions
21:18:59 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> perfect!
21:19:04 <CaptBrianna> I like that one, too
21:19:04 <TeamColtra> then it goes back to moderated and a counter point is presented
21:19:51 <D-USA> The main issue, IMO, is that only one person at a time has +v during moderated
portions
21:20:14 <Rath> Does anybody have any questions about either?
21:20:19 <TeamColtra> D-USA, but a person can query the person running the meeting to get get put
on "que" to speak
21:20:47 <TeamColtra> and if you are worried about abuse, the person running the meeting can make
a small statement in the channel that so-and-so is up to speak
21:21:07 <TeamColtra> If its not mentioned the person who can't speak can say something in
- uspirateparty :P
21:22:27 <D-USA> I've also wanted to throw out the possibility of running one meeting under each
option (taking voice as needed VS. giving voice as needed)
21:22:35 <D-USA> to see which one would run better in practice vs. theory
21:22:54 <Rush> I like that
21:23:19 <TeamColtra> Well I kinda object only because my meeting style will take probably 2
meetings to get used to
21:23:20 <Rath> Well, we don't have a specific method to follow for D-USA's proposition.
21:23:42 <Rath> Unless you want to write it up real fast right now?
21:23:52 <Rath> Or hold off until next meeting?
21:24:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> table it
21:24:11 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> more thought needs to be put in
21:24:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> maybe a channel?
21:24:23 <TeamColtra> actually.. why don't we just use mine next time? and then again the time
after that
21:24:26 <TeamColtra> and then we can try his
21:24:30 <D-USA> both methods are pretty much the same
21:24:40 <Rush> can we combine both?
21:24:48 <D-USA> only difference is that during moderated portions people can loose voice in my
proposal
21:24:53 <TeamColtra> well Rush they are alreayd pretty similar
21:25:01 <D-USA> in TeamColtra people have to ask for voice
21:25:07 <D-USA> that is pretty much the only difference
21:25:12 <D-USA> do you agree TC?
21:25:17 <TeamColtra> I agree
21:25:59 <TeamColtra> First can we hold a vote if the general idea of D-USA and My new meeting
style is an aproach we would like to use in our meetings?
21:27:20 <TeamColtra> �12Network: � �12Card-1� Broadcom NetLink BCM5784M Gigabit Ethernet PCIe
�12driver� tg3 �12v:� 3.99
21:27:20 <TeamColtra> �12 � �12Card-2� Atheros AR928X Wireless Network Adapter
(PCI-Express) �12driver� ath9k
21:27:28 <TeamColtra> I move to vote that the Party would like to make a change to the way we hold
meetings by having a set structure based on roberts rules while still using veto consensus.
21:27:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rath? call it if you please :-)
21:28:33 <Rath> Any seconds?
21:28:49 <D-USA> I'll second
21:28:53 <TeamColtra> there has to be a second or an objection
21:28:55 <TeamColtra> thank you :P
21:28:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> third
21:29:07 <TeamColtra> I vote aye
21:29:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
21:29:19 <Rush> aye
21:29:24 <Rath> All in favor of TeamColtra's proposition, say aye.
21:29:29 * D-USA votes aye
21:29:30 -!- Spreadsheet!~lymskos@Name141-B09C4EFA.evv.wideopenwest.com has quit: (Quit:
Spreadsheet)
21:29:36 * Rush votes Aye
21:29:37 * WebGuest65 votes aye
21:29:38 * Rath votes aye
21:29:50 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
21:30:02 <CaptBrianna> aye
21:30:37 <Rath> AndChat
21:30:55 <D-USA> I don't think AndChat is around...
21:31:01 <WebGuest65> I don't believe AndChat is with us at the moment.
21:31:02 <Rath> 7-0
21:31:04 <Rath> It passes
21:31:12 <WebGuest65> He could be at a later time, however.
21:31:19 <D-USA> you taking over Mrs. Administrator?
21:31:26 <Rath> Er, as much as I can
21:31:29 <D-USA> lol
21:31:38 <Rath> If I don't response for a bit, please keep things rolling x.x
21:31:49 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well if I was officer....
21:31:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :-P
21:32:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> oh! Seargeant at Arms!
21:32:19 <Rath> Next topic
21:32:20 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Require archiving for all emails of members acting in an official
capacity on the behalf of the party, namely, but not exclusively, from the @pirate-party.us email
domain name.
21:32:23 <Rath> # Require archiving for all emails of members acting in an official capacity on
the behalf of the party, namely, but not exclusively, from the @pirate-party.us email domain name.
(Brittany Phelps)
21:32:53 <Rath> I was kinda surprised when I found out that we didn't have email archiving for
officers of the party.
21:33:06 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well there's pros and cons
21:33:11 <TeamColtra> I would like to make a clearification that this will or will not include
personal email?
21:33:11 <Rath> I see a few reasons why this is necessary
21:33:22 <CaptBrianna> Oh wow, yeah ... there really should be, it's a legal issue.
21:33:23 <Rath> Accountability, mainly, though
21:33:32 <Rath> No, this is for emails from @pirate-party.us accounts
21:33:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> @pirate-party.us should only be used for party affairs
21:33:47 <Rath> When you're acting in a legal capacity for the party, your emails should be logged.
21:33:49 <CaptBrianna> Yes, that's what I mean.
21:33:50 <Rush> I'm for it, it's one of the things I wanted to push for, assuming I get elected to
Records
21:34:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I second Rush
21:34:07 <D-USA> Can I throw a question out there?
21:34:11 <K`Tetch> did you put in your nominatino, bradly?
21:34:13 <Rath> You are representing a political party, and you should be able to be held
accountable for how you act when in that position
21:34:13 <Rath> Sure
21:34:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ya just did :-P
21:34:22 <Rush> Yes, my nomination is on the site
21:34:23 <Rush> I think
21:34:23 <Rath> D-USA
21:34:24 <K`Tetch> as I said int he discussion, I have logs of my emails
21:34:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rush: yeah, it is
21:34:36 <TeamColtra> yeah, I believe this was just an oversight in original planning... I move to
vote on this
21:34:46 <K`Tetch> I made sure I keep a copy before i had the account closed
21:34:53 <D-USA> State Party administrators are "national level officers, will all benefits of the
office"
21:34:54 <Rush> http://pirate-party.us/content/announcement-candidacy-records-officer
21:34:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I second Coltra
21:34:56 <Rath> Guys, stop moving and seconding and all this. We're not even done with the
discussion
21:35:08 <D-USA> thanks
21:35:13 <TeamColtra> Rath, I don't see a nessesary discussion
21:35:16 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Motion is to bring agenda to a vote
21:35:17 <TeamColtra> Its pretty clear
21:35:22 <Rath> D-USA just brought up a good question
21:35:29 <TeamColtra> "all emails on the official domain should be logged"
21:35:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> logging of email or no? yay or nay?
21:35:36 <D-USA> I'll make it an official objection then
21:35:37 <Rush> I second Rath's motion to stop seconding
21:35:48 <TeamColtra> that wasn't a motion
21:35:48 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lulz
21:35:49 <D-USA> you cannot move until the objeciton is killed or sustained
21:35:55 <Rath> You guys might not have questions, but D-USA does
21:36:04 <TeamColtra> okay I respectfully widthdraw
21:36:13 <TeamColtra> D-USA, can you repeat your inquery
21:36:21 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yes, please do
21:36:48 <Rath> If they're national officers, acting on behalf of the national party, then yes, I
would support their emails being logged, when they are acting in that fashion
21:36:55 <Rath> What does everyone else thing on that?
21:37:12 <K`Tetch> the email accounts are effectively 'property' of the party
21:37:12 <D-USA> State Admins are National Level Officer. I don't have a @pirate-party.us account,
but I have an official @okpirateparty.net acccount. Should the State officers (at least Admins
since they are also national officers) have to log official state emails for the national party
21:37:13 -!- AndChat!~AndChat@Name141-F666C252.tmodns.net has quit: (Ping timeout)
21:37:20 <TeamColtra> I think it should be simple: Any emails that are sent to, or origionate from
our domain name must be logged
21:37:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> D-USA raises a good point
21:37:37 <TeamColtra> (or any sub-domain names, or future domain names that we have)
21:37:46 <K`Tetch> yes D-USA
21:37:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> State officers, when acting in official party matters, should have their
e-mails logged
21:37:55 <K`Tetch> and probably officers of the state parties
21:37:56 <D-USA> I personally don't have a problem of logging my emails for the USPP, but other
states might see it as infringing into their status as individual parties
21:37:59 <TeamColtra> State issues are state issues, we cannot force them to log their emails
21:38:17 <CaptBrianna> We can suggest it, though, if we are
21:38:19 <D-USA> PPOK is its own party
21:38:21 <D-USA> appart from USPP
21:38:22 <Rush> I would think the state parties should have their own records keeping initiative
21:38:26 <TeamColtra> exactly D-USA
21:38:29 <CaptBrianna> "We" as in National
21:38:30 <K`Tetch> its an aspect of accountability, It may also be a requirement
21:38:40 <K`Tetch> even if the logs are not public, they should still be kept
21:38:42 <D-USA> but do the state parties have to share with USPP?
21:38:43 <Rath> Well, I would think that if they're going to be working on behalf of the USPP, it
would make sense for them to have a USPP email, and not work out of their OKPP email
21:39:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> it may be seperate but if you act in the interest of the state party,
better believe the National will be implicated
21:39:04 <TeamColtra> Rath, in that case his emails from USPP and to USPP should be logged
21:39:07 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and dragged into legal matters
21:39:14 <D-USA> like I said, I have no issue with it, but future state parties might be concerned
21:39:21 <TeamColtra> but if he wants to send a message on the OKPP domain name we don't have a
right to require it
21:39:21 <D-USA> so I just thought we should adress it now
21:39:29 <CaptBrianna> That would be like state-level Democrats being a seperate party.
21:39:35 -!- D-USA!~irc@Name141-95BFF5D9.ok.ok.cox.net has quit: (Connection reset by peer)
21:39:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well the State Officer's emails to the national and others outside of the
central party
21:40:00 -!- D-USA!~irc@Name141-95BFF5D9.ok.ok.cox.net has joined #meeting
21:40:03 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I would assume that to talk amongst members in which yoiu dont wanna be
logged you can use your private account....yes?
21:40:05 <TeamColtra> <CaPtAiN_KiDd> it may be seperate but if you act in the interest of the
state party, better believe the National will be implicated <-- thats actually not true
21:40:14 <Rath> Nah, I completely agree with you about that, D-USA
21:40:19 <TeamColtra> Because we are a registered PAC
21:40:20 <K`Tetch> they are, CaptBrianna - hence the whole florida/michigan issue in 08
21:40:50 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well then, if the DNC can do it, we can too!
21:40:55 <CaptBrianna> Which I'd like to see us avoid if possible... but I may be asking too
much, lol.
21:41:34 <TeamColtra> Okay so is there anyone who feels that state parties SHOULD be required to
log?
21:41:34 <D-USA> I think 100% that states should log 100% of emails
21:41:41 <D-USA> but do they need to share with USPP
21:41:45 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> nah
21:41:54 <K`Tetch> not neccesarlly
21:41:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> their seperate entities
21:41:55 <D-USA> if so do all emails need to share, or only the admin, since he is also a national
officer
21:41:59 <K`Tetch> unless theres a reason for the specific email
21:42:04 <K`Tetch> but records and logs should still be kept
21:42:10 <TeamColtra> D-USA, I disagree 98% (only because you say that I always take things to the
extreme I only wanted to be 98% against you)
21:42:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah, unless it involves actions with the state and the national
21:42:15 <Rush> I do not think the states should share with uspp, unless it's for accountability
purposes
21:42:16 <CaptBrianna> I don't think we need to share anything, but definitley log.
21:42:38 <TeamColtra> I think the states should be ENCOURAGED to share with us, but we cannot
mandate it
21:42:50 <CaptBrianna> Encouraging is good
21:42:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra's got it!
21:42:59 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> :::gives him donut:::
21:43:16 <Rath> Except for the admin of the state party, perhaps, since they are also a member of
the National party
21:43:16 <TeamColtra> honestly we can't mandate it if we wanted to... because USPP has no legal
control over OKPP or any of the others
21:43:18 <D-USA> I have no problem with that. But you know there will be a state party that will
throw a fit about it at some point
21:43:24 -!- Haplo|Away is now known as Haplo
21:43:32 <Haplo> I'm back
21:43:33 <TeamColtra> Rath, only if their emails come from the USPP email address
21:43:35 <Haplo> what's the topic atm
21:43:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> D-USA: throw a fit about what?
21:43:41 <D-USA> having to log or share
21:43:50 <TeamColtra> D-USA, thats why its only a suggestion
21:43:55 <TeamColtra> or an "encouragement"
21:44:06 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well head of the State Party will have to
21:44:07 <K`Tetch> they should log internally, it's part of the platform after all
21:44:12 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> members not
21:44:15 <Rath> ^^
21:44:42 <K`Tetch> we can't say 'be transparent, and accountable, (but not if you're a state
pirate party)
21:44:55 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, but its not within our legal rights to tell them they have to
21:44:56 <D-USA> But we can't tell the state parties what to do
21:45:09 <TeamColtra> It doesn't matter if they should or shouldn't we can't force them
21:45:13 <K`Tetch> we can't, but then, we also can't really recognise it
21:45:13 <Haplo> we can decide to not sanction state parties if they don't meet national criteria
21:45:22 <CaptBrianna> Right, we can only set an example ... and ask nicely
21:45:26 <Haplo> and we can post that national criteria online
21:45:31 <TeamColtra> Haplo, thats true, but that only will hurt us as a small party
21:45:34 <Haplo> since we're about transparency
21:45:36 <Haplo> um
21:45:37 <Haplo> hurt us?
21:45:44 <Haplo> it will be a strength of ours; sticking to our guns
21:45:47 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ha! Haplos is right
21:45:51 <K`Tetch> all we need to say is 'we stand for this, they say they do, but won'
21:45:52 <Rath> True. If they cannot hold up our platform, we cannot recognize them as a party
21:45:58 <K`Tetch> t even keep private logs of all emails, just in case
21:46:13 <CaptBrianna> Yeah, but mandating pirates is like herding cats.
21:46:16 <Haplo> we can't compromise even as a small party on such a prominent platform
21:46:22 <D-USA> the only state logs national should have free access to is admin, IMO
21:46:34 <D-USA> since admin is a national officer
21:46:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> CaptBrianna: lulz! true
21:46:43 <TeamColtra> and in what way must the state "log" their emails?
21:46:53 <D-USA> he should have all the benefits of both state and national, with all the
obligations
21:46:54 <CaptBrianna> "Free
21:46:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah, what "logs"
21:46:56 <TeamColtra> I mean can they have it in a gigantic text file?
21:47:08 <CaptBrianna> "Free access"? What? No...
21:47:09 <TeamColtra> do they need to be zipped?
21:47:15 <D-USA> what is the best way to log emails
21:47:21 <D-USA> that would be a seperate issue for myself
21:47:38 <Haplo> look, we have our policies. If state branches want to be a branch of the united
states pirate party, they have to follow our rules and our platforms. otherwise they are not part
of the pirate party. it's as simple as that. I don't see any real debate on that issue, and I'm
not sure what it has to do with the agenda item
21:47:46 <CaptBrianna> I mean, keep a copy of your official emails, in case there's an issue and
we need to request them.
21:48:00 <D-USA> but does national have any right to request state emails
21:48:01 <TeamColtra> Do they need to be transfered monthly?
21:48:05 <TeamColtra> do they just need to be on their server?
21:48:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Haplo: look, we have our policies. If state branches want to be a branch
of the united states pirate party, they have to follow our rules and our platforms. otherwise they
are not part of the pirate party. it's as simple as that. I don't see any real debate on that
issue, and I'm not sure what it has to do with the agenda item
21:48:11 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> reason!
21:48:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> it's a wonderful thing
21:48:27 <TeamColtra> If we are going to mandate it, we must have a clear ruling
21:49:28 <D-USA> @pirate-party.us needs to be logged, I don't think anybody has a problem with that
21:49:31 <TeamColtra> What if their emails are encrypted? Must they stop using encrypted emails on
their state account?
21:49:43 <TeamColtra> D-USA, I agree with that
21:49:44 <D-USA> I ALWAYS use encrypted when I can
21:49:52 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> only dealing with @pirate-party.us
21:50:00 <TeamColtra> Can I propose this:
21:50:01 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> why are we talking about states?
21:50:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> seperate issue
21:50:08 <TeamColtra> Lets table how we do states
21:50:11 <Haplo> let's approach this from a scientific viewpoint
21:50:12 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> second
21:50:15 <Haplo> what is the current situation in politics
21:50:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ...respectfully
21:50:18 <D-USA> because state admins are national level officers
21:50:34 <Haplo> are government lines of communication open or private?
21:50:37 <CaptBrianna> Let's decide what we're doing first, though.
21:50:42 <TeamColtra> D-USA, well then come back next week with a way that includes everything...
on how we are going to mandate the states do it
21:51:02 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so they're national level officers that feel they don't need to share
their emails like the other national officers because they wish to declare sovereignty....from the
national?
21:51:08 <K`Tetch> government should ebe public, or at least transparent
21:51:08 <TeamColtra> For now, lets just pass the national one... since that is on the agenda
21:51:14 <Haplo> My guess is they are private for a while, and then released during the next
administration, and accessible via the Freedom of Information Act
21:51:27 <Haplo> So once that is answered, do we agree or disagree with the privacy of government
communication
21:51:45 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> i'm sure we agree with privacy
21:51:47 <Haplo> well, I think we disagree, since we're about openness and transparency. To say
otherwise would mean we do not stand even for our own platforms
21:51:51 <D-USA> the agenda covers all officers, including not using the @pirate-party.us account
21:52:01 <K`Tetch> that we keep them is the issue, the question of when they should be released is
moot until the records are kept at minimum
21:52:16 <TeamColtra> Require archiving for all emails of members acting in an official capacity
on the behalf of the party, namely, but not exclusively, from the @pirate-party.us email domain
name. <-- your right
21:52:23 <TeamColtra> okay but then that still isnt clear enough
21:52:26 <Haplo> So
21:52:31 <TeamColtra> it says namely but not limited to
21:52:35 <TeamColtra> so can that include my personal email?
21:52:39 <Haplo> how do you archive an email address that isn't under your jurisdiction
21:52:49 <TeamColtra> can that include my second email?
21:52:52 <Haplo> I think it's a supererogatory thing
21:52:54 <TeamColtra> it has no defined limits
21:53:00 <D-USA> are all of KiDd's emails that are trying to get us legal help required to be
logged?
21:53:03 <Haplo> because all members acting in an official capacity SHOULD be using the pirate-
party.us account
21:53:14 <CaptBrianna> I don't think official business should be done from your private emails,
really.
21:53:16 <D-USA> he is a member, acting on behalf of the party
21:53:20 <Rush> exactly
21:53:23 <Haplo> he's not in an official capacity though
21:53:26 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> D-USA: no legal opinions given oin email form
21:53:26 <Haplo> he's just a member
21:53:27 <TeamColtra> CaptBrianna, exactly
21:53:29 <Haplo> trying to get help fo us
21:53:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> my personal policy ;-)
21:53:49 <Rush> You can ask Rath, I didn't send her any information regarding the Party until she
had an @pirate0party.us address
21:53:50 <Haplo> but I agree, I don't think personal email should be used for party business, in
an official context
21:53:56 <D-USA> is accountability overtaking privacy here?
21:53:59 <Haplo> if you're emailing another member of the party or w/e that's fine
21:54:20 <Haplo> I would like to propose that we mandate official party email take course only
through pirate-party.us accounts
21:54:36 <TeamColtra> I would like to limit debate to ONLY the @pirate-party.us domain name, until
we have a clear idea on exactly what other emails are to be logged and how they are logged
21:54:37 <Rush> I second that motion
21:54:38 <D-USA> I act on behalf of the party
21:54:49 <D-USA> lol
21:55:06 <Haplo> because we cannot legally claim jurisdiction over emails not originating on our
server
21:55:19 <TeamColtra> lol Rush I was going to have you clearify to whom you are seconding but its
both the same :P
21:55:22 <D-USA> I can go with only talking about @pirate-party.us emails, and working out how to
put the states under the requirement later
21:55:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> So how about "Any emails involving official business of party affairs at
the national or state level that includes both in the affairs or even just one of the two is to be
logged for accountability but only disclosed when formally asked for by the national"....?
21:55:51 <Haplo> thats a mouth ful
21:55:54 <D-USA> again, states are their own issue
21:55:54 <Haplo> in the middle
21:55:59 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> thats what she said
21:56:07 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so good, yes?
21:56:14 <TeamColtra> Look clearly this hasn't been thought through enough for emails outside of
the @pirate-party.us domain.. so all other requests should be put on next weeks agenda
21:56:22 <TeamColtra> I am not trying to stall it :P i have no reason to
21:56:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> agreed, we're only dealing with @pirate-party.us
21:56:32 <D-USA> archive ALL emails from the @pirate-party.us domains
21:56:33 <Haplo> "Any emails involving official Pirate Party business or affairs should take place
solely and completely on pirate-party.us accounts"
21:56:35 <TeamColtra> I just think that we need to make sure its clear and concise considering
this is "a big deal"
21:56:55 <Haplo> And "All e-mails from the @pirate-party.us domain will be archived and available
for public display"
21:56:57 <D-USA> Haplo, that goes to far again IMO
21:57:02 <Haplo> too far?
21:57:13 <K`Tetch> kept and released if needed
21:57:13 <D-USA> why do I HAVE to use @pirate-party.us
21:57:14 <TeamColtra> "All e-mails from the @pirate-party.us domain will be archived and available
for public display" <-- Lets just vote on this?
21:57:15 <Rush> Right now, the public display thing... it's too early
21:57:19 <Haplo> because
21:57:24 <TeamColtra> wait but not for public display
21:57:24 <Haplo> that's the purpose of the e-mail address
21:57:28 <TeamColtra> >.< I should have read that closer
21:57:34 <D-USA> PPOK has their own domain
21:57:35 <D-USA> own email
21:57:37 <Haplo> you can have an official @pirate-party.us account for handling pirate-party.us
business
21:57:47 <CaptBrianna> "All e-mails from the @pirate-party.us domain will be archived and
available for public display" second
21:58:04 <Haplo> PPOK is not USPP right now, we're dealing with the national party I thought
21:58:17 <K`Tetch> counter-proposal. All email using the pirate-party.us domain will be
perminantly archived, and available for release if a sitauation calls for it
21:58:18 <TeamColtra> I move to vote "All e-mails from the @pirate-party.us domain will be
archived, and saved in a location that only the officers can view"
21:58:26 <CaptBrianna> I second
21:58:27 <TeamColtra> the others can be discussed later
21:58:32 <Haplo> because if someone emails me from a @pirate-party.us account, I'm assumign
they're from the US Pirate Party, not the OK Pirate Party
21:58:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> second
21:58:44 <Rush> what about emails sent TO the p-p.us email addy?
21:58:45 <TeamColtra> The motion has been moved and seconded we are now voting on "All e-mails
from the @pirate-party.us domain will be archived, and saved in a location that only the officers
can view"
21:58:54 <CaptBrianna> aye
21:58:56 <TeamColtra> aye
21:59:01 <K`Tetch> NAY
21:59:03 * Rush aye
21:59:06 <Rath> Hold on
21:59:07 <Haplo> why only officers
21:59:09 <Haplo> wh ynot the public
21:59:23 <Rath> There were two proposals within the same breath
21:59:29 <D-USA> Veto Consensu: WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH ALL OBJECTIONS
21:59:33 <D-USA> before voting
21:59:41 <Haplo> WHAT IS OUR PLATFORM
21:59:42 <Haplo> The population should at all times understand what a governing body is doing,
with or to whom it is doing these things, and for what reasons.
21:59:47 <K`Tetch> Why anyone, without good cause. An FOI, yes, a policy need, an internal or
external dispute, a lawsuit, yes
21:59:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
22:00:12 <CaptBrianna> I just don't think we need to go OVERBOARD with our platform.
22:00:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> you can do that with a "point of inquiry"
22:00:24 <TeamColtra> Okay clearly: What was the objections
22:00:28 <TeamColtra> point by point, no other
22:00:33 <K`Tetch> Objection - officers can view
22:00:46 <D-USA> who do all officers need to view each others email?
22:00:46 <Haplo> officers can view
22:00:52 <Haplo> will officers be able to hide or redact etc
22:01:03 <K`Tetch> counterproposal "All email using the pirate-party.us domain will be perminantly
archived, and specific emails available for release if a situation calls for it"
22:01:19 <Haplo> I think it should just be automatically logged, like logbeard automatically logs
these conversations
22:01:24 <TeamColtra> I can agree to that K`Tetch
22:01:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> that's better KTech
22:01:37 <Haplo> how about re rephrase that coutnerproposal
22:01:39 <CaptBrianna> D-USA - if the emails are not personal, why shouldn't the other officers be
able to see them?
22:01:56 <Haplo> "All e-mail using the @pirate-party.us domain will be permanently archived, and
available on request."
22:02:13 <CaptBrianna> That sounds good
22:02:14 <K`Tetch> depends ont he request
22:02:16 <TeamColtra> I don't feel comfortable automatically having my emails read out of context,
thats why I had imposed the limit
22:02:17 <Haplo> no
22:02:18 <Haplo> any request
22:02:24 <D-USA> arriving or being send from the @pirate-party.us domain
22:02:29 <Rath> We advocate transparency
22:02:39 <Haplo> if an 18 year old senior in high school wants to read our party emails from the
past
22:02:41 <Rath> There's no reason why, if someone requests records, that we don't present them
with records
22:02:41 <Haplo> they should be able to
22:02:44 <Rath> ^
22:02:44 <D-USA> arriving and being send I mean
22:02:46 <Haplo> if an 80 year old grandma wants to, she should be able to
22:02:52 <TeamColtra> I agree Haplo Rath and K`Tetch
22:03:07 <CaptBrianna> I agree with "on request" and any request.
22:03:08 <K`Tetch> Haplo, maybe any reasonable request
22:03:16 <K`Tetch> because there are ways to have unreasonable requests
22:03:19 <Haplo> requiring a 'good reason' for viewing something means there should be a very good
reason not to show it to anyone; we don't have any reason, let alone a good one, for doing such a
thing
22:03:31 <Haplo> how is any request for information unreasonable
22:03:32 <D-USA> what if the Democrats show up and just demand every email from every account ever
written
22:03:39 <Haplo> "I want to see your email archives"
22:03:41 <Haplo> "That's unreasonable, no."
22:03:42 <K`Tetch> or every second email
22:03:49 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Ok, i found a way to phrase this, if you wish to talk about matters
concerning the party BEFORE acting officially, one can do so via another email account before
sending
22:03:49 <CaptBrianna> I don't think we should judge if someone's being reasonable or not.
22:03:53 <Haplo> that's why it should be archived in a public place
22:03:58 <Haplo> so that they can view them themselves
22:04:01 <Haplo> in a searchable directory
22:04:06 <Haplo> organizable down to account
22:04:09 <Haplo> and date
22:04:15 <Rush> like a database of each member's emails
22:04:18 <K`Tetch> there are also other reasons
22:04:19 <Haplo> and searchable via title, author, or keyword
22:04:31 <Haplo> I have yet to hear a good or even valid reason for not letting them be completely
public
22:04:32 <K`Tetch> what about, say, an email with our login details for an account
22:04:39 <TeamColtra> However, what about the names and info of the people we are contacting
22:04:45 <Haplo> such things shouldn't be in emails
22:04:47 <Haplo> and can be redacted
22:05:04 <Haplo> so
22:05:08 <TeamColtra> And what about incoming emails...
22:05:12 <CaptBrianna> All voter records, driver's licence info and mortgage apps are public; I
don't see the problem with our official business being public, too.
22:05:14 <D-USA> question: How to all the other PP's handle this
22:05:24 <TeamColtra> currently incoming emails are logged but what if someone sent us an email
without knowing their email was going to be made public
22:05:25 <Haplo> "�01All e-mail using the @pirate-party.us domain will be permanently archived
after review by the administration, and available on request.�"
22:05:44 <D-USA> people assume (wrongly often) that emails are private
22:05:50 <Haplo> replace 'administration' with whoever you wish
22:05:55 <Haplo> someone who can redact sensitive information
22:05:58 <Haplo> or add a second line
22:06:00 <TeamColtra> change administration to officers
22:06:01 <D-USA> what if they find out that they email us with an expectation of privacy and we
release all their information
22:06:08 <Rush> Perhaps we could set our email system up to where when someone sends us an email
it bounces back an email saying their email will be made public
22:06:24 <Haplo> 'Sensitive information (such as log-in details, contact names or addresses) may
be redacted'
22:06:26 <Rush> and if they want to opt out, they should reply
22:06:32 <TeamColtra> Rush, or how about no incoming emails?
22:06:32 <D-USA> we are the party of privacy, but everyone who contacts us will have their
information released into the public domain?
22:06:40 <TeamColtra> Honestly there is no transparency issues with incoming emails
22:06:45 <TeamColtra> We did not send them
22:06:48 <CaptBrianna> How about we just archive our email for now, and decide how public to make
them later.
22:07:03 <Rush> sounds good
22:07:05 <D-USA> let's contact the other PP's and see how they handle requests for their emails
22:07:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah, i'm against the email logging on second thought
22:07:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> that's other people's emails too
22:07:30 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, its scary how much you agree with me
22:07:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> D-USA: great idea!
22:07:38 <Rath> We can put a disclaimer when listing the email address
22:07:38 <Haplo> I second D-USA's idea
22:07:56 <TeamColtra> Rath, thats not good enough, because you know that emails are transfered
indirectly too
22:08:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> second...er...third?
22:08:03 <CaptBrianna> I'm just not sure what people would be saying in an email to a political
party that would be so very private, but it's making my head hurt thinking about it for now.
22:08:04 <D-USA> log everything, without a provision on how to release the information for now,
and contact the other PP to get their policies
22:08:14 <TeamColtra> "hey how do you get a hold of brittany" "oh here have her email address"
22:08:25 <D-USA> some people might have an issue having it known that they contacted the PP
22:08:25 <TeamColtra> Okay
22:08:33 <D-USA> what if someone from another campaign wants to send us info
22:08:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> emails go both ways, include one email and the "Re:" part is gonna get in
it too
22:08:50 <D-USA> what is a whistleblower wants to send us info
22:09:00 <TeamColtra> "All emails on the pirate-party.us domain name shall be logged"
22:09:08 <TeamColtra> Lets leave it at that, and ammend it later
22:09:31 <Haplo> for posterity
22:09:31 <Haplo> lol
22:09:31 <Rush> I agree with Coltra
22:09:41 <D-USA> there are LOTS of reasons why someone can send an email to the pirate-party.us
account and not want any of it to go out into the public domain
22:09:41 <Haplo> yeah I agree
22:10:13 <D-USA> Are there any objections to the simple "all pirate-party.us emails shall be
logged"
22:10:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we should maintain priest/psychiatric confidentiality
22:10:17 <Rush> It'd be easier to prune things in the future than to wish we still had information
22:10:28 <CaptBrianna> agreed
22:10:34 <Rush> why do we need a priest?
22:10:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> what about people scared of being sued by a company for illegally
downloading?
22:10:42 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> coming to us for help?
22:11:00 <Rath> Sued=/=guilty
22:11:01 <CaptBrianna> It's illegal, we can't help them
22:11:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> nah, eff that, no logging until we find out how PP's elsewhere do it
22:11:09 <D-USA> Are there any objections to the simple "all pirate-party.us emails shall be
logged"
22:11:16 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> no, they didn't do anything illegal
22:11:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> like that lady that was told she did it but didnt
22:11:24 <Haplo> let's stop going off on tangents
22:11:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah
22:11:33 <CaptBrianna> As far as the law goes at this moment...
22:11:38 <Haplo> I propose that "all pirate-party.us emails shall be logged."
22:11:39 <Haplo> vote on that
22:11:43 <TeamColtra> okay so table it?
22:11:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> second
22:11:45 <Rath> Second
22:11:50 <Rath> All in favor, say aye
22:11:53 <Haplo> aye
22:11:54 <CaptBrianna> aye
22:11:55 * Rush vote aye
22:11:56 * D-USA votes aye
22:11:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
22:12:03 <TeamColtra> aye?
22:12:04 * Rath votes aye
22:12:08 <WebGuest65> aye
22:12:29 <Rush> (Did WebGuest65 identify at the outset?)
22:12:34 <Haplo> K`Tetch?
22:12:35 <WebGuest65> yes
22:12:39 <D-USA> Rush: yes
22:12:55 <TeamColtra> lol okay well we got through point 2 of 6
22:12:59 <Rush> Okay, first time s/he's said anything I've seen
22:13:01 <CaptBrianna> yikes
22:13:04 <TeamColtra> at this rate, we will be done with the meeting tomorrow
22:13:11 <Rush> late tomorrow
22:13:21 <Haplo> 7 out of 8. Are Roberts Rules in effect already or not until next meeting?
22:13:22 <Rath> Well, it passes, anyways
22:13:23 <CaptBrianna> good, I have to work tomorrow. I'll call in piratey
22:13:32 <Haplo> I mean 8 out of 9
22:13:42 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> majority, passed, next agenda
22:13:45 <Rath> Ok, so it passes.
22:13:49 <Rath> Next topic
22:13:49 <Rath> Moving our IRC one final time to the official PPI server with the rest of the
world. (Travis McCrea)
22:13:54 <D-USA> I am logging all @okpirateparty.net emails anyway, just want to make it clear for
other states in the future
22:13:55 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
22:14:12 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> an agenda that's a simple vote
22:14:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so aye
22:14:17 <D-USA> not a simple vote
22:14:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> if its nay then we open the floor for objections
22:14:43 <CaptBrianna> what are the pros & cons ... I'm new to IRC
22:14:45 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> am I the only one who did student government?
22:14:56 <Rath> No
22:14:59 <Haplo> No
22:15:01 <D-USA> did your student government use veto concensus
22:15:05 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> bah! not objections, alternative measures
22:15:06 <Rath> No
22:15:11 <Haplo> I vote against the suggested IRC move
22:15:18 <TeamColtra> wait
22:15:23 <WebGuest65> What are the cons of the move?
22:15:24 <TeamColtra> I don't even know whats going on
22:15:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> PPI server\
22:15:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> your agenda lol
22:15:37 <TeamColtra> Oh
22:15:40 <Rath> Lay out the pros and cons, TeamColtra
22:15:46 <CaptBrianna> before I vote, I need to know why we're moving & why people object.
22:15:57 <TeamColtra> Currently we are segregating ourselves from the rest of the PPI community
22:15:59 <Haplo> well
22:16:07 <Haplo> since we are here in one place
22:16:14 <Haplo> we should determine first if there are any problems with this place
22:16:18 <TeamColtra> there is a network already there, and we can quickly gain knoweldge from
others
22:16:20 <Haplo> and second if there are any places better
22:16:33 <TeamColtra> it would encourage their members to chill out in our channel and we could
talk to them more freely
22:16:38 <Haplo> if such a better place exists, why is it better to be there instead of here, and
do the benefits of moving outweigh the costs
22:16:49 <TeamColtra> Also name141 has lready stated that if he stops getting use of this server
for free
22:16:50 <CaptBrianna> Well, I do like the idea of being on the same planet as everyone else.
22:16:52 <TeamColtra> he is going to drop it
22:17:01 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I think joining PPI would show a stronger solidarity
22:17:07 <TeamColtra> meaning we don't even know how long we can have this server...
22:17:15 <CaptBrianna> Oh dear, that could suck
22:17:28 <Haplo> IIRC K`Tetch mentioned there was a reason why we weren't on the same server as PPI
22:17:31 <Rush> I agree with Kidd
22:17:45 <Haplo> because I agree it would be nice but I want to know what that reason was
22:17:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> If we seperate ourselves from PPI it's gonna be us....and all of them
22:17:54 <TeamColtra> Currently people are concerned about privacy since the swedish server logs
to the government
22:17:55 <D-USA> I think that everything TC proposes can be achieved by adding rooms to PPI
without giving up our server here
22:17:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I don't like that feeling
22:18:03 <TeamColtra> however you do have an option of connecting to the other server based in
finland
22:18:09 <D-USA> The server is based in Germany TC
22:18:14 <D-USA> Sweden in Germany
22:18:17 <D-USA> and
22:18:26 <TeamColtra> ooor we can convince name141 or crash to add his server
22:18:29 <TeamColtra> to the PPI network
22:18:31 <TeamColtra> which they would allow
22:18:39 <CaptBrianna> until he drops it
22:18:49 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> also, with a PPI server, if anyone wants our stuff to "hrass" us during
elections, then they have an entire International to fight back
22:18:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> one for all, all for one
22:18:59 <D-USA> what keeps us from adding #uspirateparty to the PPI server without giving up our
server here
22:19:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> D-USA: also a good point as well
22:19:21 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we can have two
22:19:23 <D-USA> Sweden and Germany have both shown that they have no problem taking servers
offline without legal reasons
22:19:24 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we can have 50!
22:19:25 <TeamColtra> because we know that the other will go abandoned
22:19:37 <TeamColtra> I have already registered #uspirateparty over there
22:19:39 <K`Tetch> Theres also no need to move
22:19:39 <TeamColtra> btw
22:19:40 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> PPI=Black Pearl
22:19:47 <CaptBrianna> lol
22:19:50 <Haplo> nay
22:19:59 <K`Tetch> what's the benefit gained by moving?
22:20:00 <Haplo> PPI = Davy Jones' ship
22:20:06 <D-USA> every member that logs on over there will be logged, and that info is shared
freely between european and us authorities
22:20:11 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, the advantages listed abvove
22:20:15 <TeamColtra> including a stable network
22:20:21 <D-USA> all advantages are gained without moving
22:20:24 <D-USA> by simply adding
22:20:32 <K`Tetch> stable network, you're kidding right?
22:20:49 <K`Tetch> piratenet is hardly 'stable'
22:20:49 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, do you konw when name141s friend is going to stop giving him free
space on his server?
22:20:50 <CaptBrianna> until the guy who owns the server drops it when it;s not free anymore.
22:21:04 <D-USA> do you know when Sweden will take down servers, when Germany will take down
servers
22:21:23 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Sweden? Never. Germany? Never.
22:21:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Sweden has members in EU
22:21:38 <K`Tetch> happened in sweden
22:21:39 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I mean jeez...
22:21:42 <Rush> How much does name141's server space cost, if the friend stops making it free
22:21:48 <K`Tetch> piratpartiet has had it's servers taken down before
22:21:49 <D-USA> Sweden has taken down servers before
22:21:54 <TeamColtra> For <5 bucks a month the party can also just get a small IRCd instance
22:21:54 <D-USA> Germany has taken down servers before
22:21:57 <TeamColtra> sorry <10
22:22:13 <TeamColtra> http://www.xzibition.com/ircds.php
22:22:21 <CaptBrianna> I can donate $5 a month
22:22:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> wait? so we're on the "favor from a friend" server as an official party
fighting over moving to the PPI one where ALL the other parties are?
22:22:23 <K`Tetch> and piratenet has been notorious for it's splits
22:22:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> just so we're clear
22:22:39 <D-USA> you are giving a lot of privacy up by letting European authorities have free
reign over our IRC
22:22:41 <K`Tetch> crash's server, best I know
22:22:42 <CaptBrianna> I know Kidd, right?
22:23:03 <K`Tetch> and not all the other parties
22:23:04 <D-USA> Who here has experience with European Internet Monitoring, Internet Policing
22:23:09 <TeamColtra> I appreciate name141's help
22:23:10 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> CaptBrianna: just making sure I ate the right batch of brownies before the
meeting
22:23:10 <K`Tetch> germany is on freenode, canada has it's own server
22:23:11 <TeamColtra> don't get me wrong
22:23:18 <TeamColtra> but we should be with the other PPs
22:23:20 <CaptBrianna> So, we have a platform of transparancy, and are fighting against being
transparent to Europe?
22:23:26 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lol
22:23:27 <D-USA> we can be with them, WITHOUT giving up our server here
22:23:35 <D-USA> we are also a party of privacy
22:23:37 <TeamColtra> Not only that but what message does that show others? "the united states is
isolating themselves"
22:23:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> D-USA: ALSO A GOOD POINT
22:23:41 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I say again
22:23:48 <D-USA> and I actually trust the USA way more than the Europeans
22:23:52 <K`Tetch> CaptBrianna - we have a platform of govrnment transparency, that means
officers, we have a platform of PERSONAL privacy, that means members
22:23:56 <D-USA> I have seen the crap that goes on over there
22:24:01 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Keep this one, move to the other, jump on the ship that didn't sink
22:24:10 <D-USA> I have hosted sites on servers over here because they were at risk of being taken
down by the German government
22:24:11 <K`Tetch> two channels doesn't work well
22:24:29 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch is right
22:24:32 <K`Tetch> and again, I point out, piratpartet's servers have been taken down before
22:24:33 <D-USA> Pirate Party connected sites
22:24:37 <CaptBrianna> I've worked on servers hosted in Peru for fear of being taken down in the
USA
22:24:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> well we can move to the other room, it's just us and....crazy
thought....maybe other international members pop-in to say hi
22:24:44 <CaptBrianna> for "obscenity"
22:24:55 <D-USA> The Pirate Party is not particularly popular in Europe as far as the ruling
powers are concerned
22:24:59 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I had to literally draw a map for the Brussels folk to check us out
22:25:03 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> they dont know we exist
22:25:03 <CaptBrianna> neither are we
22:25:04 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - international members, if they need to, pop over to here often
enough, when they feel like it
22:25:08 <TeamColtra> D-USA, the Pirate Party is not really popular anywhere
22:25:11 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> One Austrian
22:25:14 <K`Tetch> there isn't that much 'international curiosity' as you might think
22:25:14 <TeamColtra> as far as ruling powers are concerned
22:25:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> KTech: thats because you're not a social butterfly like I am
22:25:38 <CaptBrianna> Yeah, fuck solidarity, that's for wimps
22:25:43 <D-USA> Privacy is the single biggest reason why I am against moving to a European server
22:25:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> lmao!
22:25:46 <D-USA> and I am freaking German
22:25:47 <K`Tetch> dont' exagerate, CaPtAiN_KiDd, other party leaders know where we are
22:25:50 <Rush> There is some international curiousity
22:25:52 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, I have found that there is
22:26:03 <Haplo> I'm against moving it
22:26:07 <Haplo> if we have to move it let's move it to our own
22:26:09 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - I know jsut about everyone internatioanly, they know where we are
22:26:13 <CaptBrianna> I'm against not knowing if we'll have a server tomorrow
22:26:13 <Haplo> VPS if possible
22:26:15 <D-USA> I hang out at #ppi and every other member can too
22:26:18 <Haplo> site should be hosted on it too
22:26:25 <TeamColtra> D-USA, but they don't
22:26:32 <TeamColtra> why not at least expose the people who only connect to one server
22:26:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> leaders, yeah, but international member mixers in the chat IRC might lead
to, i dunno, the same thing we stand for such as a free exchange of ideas with everyone?
22:26:40 <TeamColtra> to the option of quickly switching channels
22:26:40 <Haplo> CaptBrianna it's not quite as impromptu as you are trying to make it out to be
22:26:43 <D-USA> so you will take away their playground, because you don't like that they don't
play with others
22:26:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> not seeing a con by going to the PPI server
22:26:56 <Haplo> if crash is unable to host us he will provide advance notice
22:26:57 <TeamColtra> Haplo, how do you know that though?
22:26:59 <D-USA> KiDd
22:27:03 <D-USA> there have been cons
22:27:04 <CaptBrianna> I'm not *trying* to do anything but understand
22:27:07 <D-USA> Privacy being the biggest
22:27:11 <D-USA> PPI is less stable than ours
22:27:13 <CaptBrianna> Did I mention I'm new to "IRC
22:27:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> why privacy?
22:27:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> PPI is less stable how?
22:27:24 <D-USA> hold on
22:27:31 <K`Tetch> kidd - the instability, the lack of privacy, the fact we won't have any admins
if needed (they're all on european schedules and are asleep during out 'busy time'
22:27:37 <TeamColtra> And lets all not forget that all traffic on US servers has to be logged due
ot the patriot act
22:27:42 <K`Tetch> less stable, you've never seen the week long netsplits?
22:27:45 <Haplo> uh
22:27:45 <TeamColtra> and all server logs can be accessed at any time anyway
22:27:47 <D-USA> NEW IRC SERVER RUN BY FINNISH PIRATE PARTY (2008-Jun-4)
22:27:47 <D-USA> -
22:27:47 <D-USA> - A new IRC server is available at irc.piraattipuolue.fi -- which is run
22:27:47 <D-USA> - by Piraattipuolue, the Finnish Pirate Party. (The server itself is
22:27:47 <D-USA> - located in Germany.)
22:27:47 <D-USA> -
22:27:47 <D-USA> - ***************************** FRA WARNING *******************************
22:27:47 <D-USA> - *** ***
22:27:48 <D-USA> - *** This IRC server is located in Sweden. From January 1, 2009, all ***
22:27:50 <D-USA> - *** international traffic passing through this server will be inter- ***
22:27:53 <D-USA> - *** cepted and may be monitored by the Swedish National Defence Radio ***
22:27:54 <D-USA> - *** Establishment (Försvarets Radioanstalt / FRA). If you do not wish ***
22:27:57 <D-USA> - *** to be intercepted by FRA, please disconnect now. ***
22:27:57 <TeamColtra> D-USA, THats on the swedish channel
22:28:00 <D-USA> - *** ***
22:28:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so can't we have meetings on our own server and chats on theirs?
22:28:01 <D-USA> - ***************************** FRA WARNING *******************************
22:28:01 <TeamColtra> swedish server
22:28:02 <D-USA> -
22:28:08 <D-USA> and GERMANY logs as well
22:28:16 <Haplo> I'm not aware of any part of the patriot act compelling server ops to log all
server track
22:28:17 <K`Tetch> TeamColtra - if you didn't know how an IRC works, all data going to the finnish
server, gets passed onto the swedish one
22:28:19 <TeamColtra> D-USA, no its not on the german server
22:28:24 <TeamColtra> that notice is only on the swedish one
22:28:25 <Haplo> all irc server traffic*
22:28:26 <CaptBrianna> I've lost entire websites to hosting companys that turn out to be run in
some dude's garage.
22:28:28 <WebGuest65> I'm sorry, but I must take leave for the time being. For future votes, I
abstain.
22:28:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> official meetings here, and chatter box IRC over there
22:28:34 <D-USA> I know that Germany logs ALL traffic
22:28:39 <D-USA> every single bit
22:28:39 <Haplo> captbrianna: you should do better homework then
22:28:39 -!- WebGuest65 is now known as WebGuest65|away
22:28:55 <D-USA> that is one of the things the German PP is fighting
22:29:02 <TeamColtra> We log all traffic too
22:29:14 <K`Tetch> but not all PMs
22:29:16 <CaptBrianna> Or, Haplo, you could be nicer
22:29:25 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I vote aye on PPI server switch and nay to not switching...brb
22:29:28 <K`Tetch> swedish logging includes PMs
22:29:31 <D-USA> So you think it is better to give all our info to every European Country + the USA
22:29:48 <TeamColtra> the basics of the Patriot Act laws regarding websites is here
http://www.itbusinessedge.com/cm/blogs/vizard/patriot-act-may-hamper-cloud-computing-adoption
/?cs=38395
22:30:00 <Haplo> that was plenty nice captbrianna
22:30:03 <Haplo> it wasn't unnice at all
22:30:05 <D-USA> cloud computing is actual files that are stored on a computer
22:30:30 <K`Tetch> doesn't count for common-carrier stuff, like IRC, iirc, TeamColtra
22:30:35 <CaptBrianna> Telling me to do homework instead of asking questions? I think I should be
allowed to ask.
22:30:45 <Haplo> I didn't say you weren't allowed to ask
22:30:46 -!- crash!fuck@net-admin.bashx.net has joined #meeting
22:30:48 <TeamColtra> http://www.networkworld.com/news/2004/0803patriot.html
22:30:58 <D-USA> and even they need at least a freaking letter
22:30:59 <K`Tetch> ok, some have said about us losing the server, or crash losing it
22:31:04 <D-USA> Sweden and Germany needs NOTHING
22:31:10 <Haplo> I said you should do more homework if you lose websites due to using 'hosting
companies' that are 'hosted out of some dude's garage'
22:31:11 <D-USA> they just log because they can
22:31:43 <TeamColtra> <Name141> I'll just keep assraping my friends server till he wants me to pay
22:31:43 <TeamColtra> <Name141> lol
22:31:43 <TeamColtra> <Travis> lol
22:31:43 <TeamColtra> <Name141> after that there wont be no name141.com lol
22:31:53 <TeamColtra> I am pretty sure thats clear enough
22:31:59 <K`Tetch> name141 is not crash
22:32:00 <D-USA> and once that becomes an issue, we can adress that
22:32:05 <CaptBrianna> If it's advertsised like it's a big company, and it's registered with the
better business bureau, then short of driving to the location and making sure, there
22:32:13 <CaptBrianna> snot much else you can do
22:32:16 <crash> that is a different server completely.
22:32:26 <TeamColtra> crash, thats what I have been saying this entire time
22:32:27 <D-USA> but I'm very much against giving up all our privacy and handing it over to the
europeans
22:32:30 <TeamColtra> is that name141
22:33:02 <K`Tetch> TeamColtra - name141 and bashx coprise this network, sans name141, the network
of bashX still exists
22:33:04 <TeamColtra> crash, if we agreed to this, would you c-line your server into the other
network
22:33:04 <crash> and the domain name141 has is what he might lose, not the ircd
22:33:21 <TeamColtra> That way we can have the best of everything
22:33:25 <crash> what other network
22:33:26 <D-USA> the ONLY arguement for moving is that we can play nice with the other PP's
22:33:39 <TeamColtra> crash, the PPI network
22:33:40 <D-USA> which we can do without moving
22:33:42 <K`Tetch> and, D-USA, and everyone else knows, you don't need to
22:33:47 <K`Tetch> they know where we are, we know where they are
22:33:58 <TeamColtra> If Crash would agree to move a server to the PPI network
22:33:59 <K`Tetch> and but putting EVERYONE onto the same network, we have asingle point of failure
22:34:03 <TeamColtra> then we get the best of everything
22:34:13 <D-USA> if members here don't want to hang out with PPI then that is their problem
22:34:14 <K`Tetch> TeamColtra - this server doesn't exist just for hte party
22:34:28 <K`Tetch> there are other channels, other users
22:34:46 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, I just /list 'd
22:35:00 <K`Tetch> which counts all those not mode +s
22:35:03 <TeamColtra> there are no real channesl with over 3 members, the network would stay alive
22:35:04 <CaptBrianna> D-USA, I don't have time to do a lot of "hanging out".... I'm sorry if that
makes me sound unfriendly or something....
22:35:10 <TeamColtra> just one server would drop
22:35:15 <TeamColtra> 2 servers to handle 30 people tops
22:35:18 <D-USA> no problem Brianna
22:35:23 <K`Tetch> CaptBrianna - not a problem, most party officers around the world don't IRC
22:35:23 <TeamColtra> would still be fine for this server
22:35:45 <TeamColtra> There are currently 3 servers that make up this network, I am requesting
that one breaks off and c-lines into PPI
22:35:46 <K`Tetch> TeamColtra - your'e counting only those you can see, not those you can't
22:35:49 <TeamColtra> and then we get the best of everything
22:35:53 <TeamColtra> K`Tetch, thats still 30 members tops
22:35:59 <D-USA> what is the 'best' of being at PPI
22:36:04 <D-USA> being able to talk to other members?
22:36:08 <D-USA> you can do that already
22:36:11 <D-USA> nothing gained by moving
22:36:13 <K`Tetch> this isn't 2001, multi-server clients are commonplace
22:36:19 <Haplo> how many parties are on that server
22:36:19 <Haplo> two?
22:36:22 <K`Tetch> I'm on 6 servers right now
22:36:27 <Haplo> I'm on 3
22:36:30 <TeamColtra> Haplo, on what server?
22:36:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> <---4
22:36:36 <Haplo> the one you guys want to move to
22:36:38 <Haplo> the "PPI" server
22:36:41 <TeamColtra> I am connected to 6
22:36:51 <K`Tetch> exactly, you've just proved the need NOT to move
22:36:56 <TeamColtra> no I didn't
22:37:05 <TeamColtra> We are not the majority
22:37:09 <D-USA> do you have any reason other than "talk to other PP's"
22:37:17 <TeamColtra> image
22:37:18 <K`Tetch> if you want to talk to someone in another channel on this network, or on
another channel on another server, is there any difficulty in doing so, any actual difference
22:37:21 <CaptBrianna> Solidarity
22:37:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> name141 stopping to exist?
22:37:30 <Haplo> Unity actually
22:37:33 <TeamColtra> �18�<��22CaptBrianna�>�� Solidarity <-- kinda what I was thinking with image
22:37:33 <TeamColtra> :P
22:37:36 <K`Tetch> solidarity is an imaginary concept
22:37:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and of course, my fav, solidarity
22:37:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we go down with the other ships
22:37:53 <crash> name141 is not dropping.
22:37:55 <D-USA> so we are showing solidarity by FORCING all uspp members to give up privacy and
hang out on European servers
22:38:03 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - by 'name141 stopping to exist' it's refering to the domain, not
the server
22:38:09 <CaptBrianna> Freedom is an imaginary concept, as is privacy
22:38:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> KTech: philosophy is convenient for objections, not pragmatism or
effective in negating the symbolism
22:38:18 <TeamColtra> crash, would you pull your one server out of this network? leaving the
other 2 servers to keep this network alive
22:38:19 <CaptBrianna> wanting it is what makes us huma
22:38:29 <Haplo> this isn't a philosophy class thanks
22:38:33 <TeamColtra> That would make the switch perfect and there would be no objections
22:38:37 <TeamColtra> well then there should be none
22:38:39 <Rush> Guys (and gals), I need to bounce. For all remaning votes, I will go with whatever
Kidd votes
22:38:40 <D-USA> who has any actual experience dealing with European Internet Privacy issues
22:38:48 <crash> there is only 2 servers.
22:38:48 <K`Tetch> ME!
22:38:51 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> 2 votes!
22:38:51 <crash> one is services.
22:38:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> see ya Rush
22:39:11 <Rush> And now, Glowstick
22:39:19 <TeamColtra> I thought there are 3 servers on this network
22:39:22 <Rush> (so I can easily find this point in the meeting on logbeard)
22:39:26 <D-USA> European Internet Privacy is the reason I joined the German Pirate Party, way
before I joined the USPP
22:39:31 <TeamColtra> *� I have 19 clients and 3 servers
22:39:32 -!- Rush!~MooGuest4@Name141-224A7134.hsd1.fl.comcast.net has quit: (Quit: Rush)
22:39:36 <crash> and, i see no need to move anywhere
22:39:40 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Can we vote on this?
22:39:44 <crash> it counts services as a server
22:39:49 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> seriously, easy as that
22:39:53 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yes or no
22:39:56 <TeamColtra> okay
22:40:06 <K`Tetch> I vote nay, with strong objections, as it's based on factual inaccuracies
22:40:07 <TeamColtra> I move to vote
22:40:10 <Haplo> I've got to run too... why do we save the important agenda items for last?!
always!! I vote yes for responding against ACTA on the last ballot, someone please remember my
vote! and yes on jason emerson
22:40:16 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I second Coltra
22:40:17 <Haplo> I vote no on moving the irc channel
22:40:25 <TeamColtra> I vote aye for moving
22:40:32 <crash> nay
22:40:32 <D-USA> no for moving
22:40:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Haplo: thanks and yay!
22:40:41 <crash> very very strong nay
22:40:41 <CaptBrianna> aye for moving
22:40:44 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye, move
22:40:51 <Haplo> okay let's not vote twice guys
22:40:52 <Rath> Nobody made a motion, guys
22:40:59 <TeamColtra> Rath, I didd
22:41:00 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> true
22:41:02 <TeamColtra> and it was seconded
22:41:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rath, the floor is yours Ms. Admin :-)
22:41:08 <TeamColtra> (twice technically :P)
22:41:11 <Rath> Sorry, didn't see it.
22:41:29 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Madame Admin?
22:41:39 <K`Tetch> can you restate for the record, TeamColtra
22:41:46 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yes, restate
22:41:49 <K`Tetch> and for a fresh set of votes
22:41:52 <Haplo> 5 and 4 so far
22:41:53 <Haplo> 5 against and 4 for
22:41:55 <Rath> Please.
22:42:01 <TeamColtra> Please vote on the following: The USPP officially will reside on the PPI
network
22:42:04 <Haplo> nay
22:42:07 <D-USA> nay
22:42:10 <TeamColtra> aye
22:42:11 <crash> nay
22:42:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
22:42:15 <CaptBrianna> aye
22:42:29 <TeamColtra> 3 against 4 for
22:42:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rush: aye
22:42:32 <K`Tetch> I vote Nay, and state that the arguemnts for the proposal have significant
factual inaccuacies and gaps
22:42:38 <Haplo> 4 and 4
22:42:41 <TeamColtra> 4 against 4 for
22:42:43 <Rath> Nay
22:42:46 <TeamColtra> Grr
22:42:47 <TeamColtra> :P
22:42:51 <Haplo> 5 against 4 four
22:42:54 <TeamColtra> 5 agaisnt 4 for
22:43:00 <Haplo> lol
22:43:05 <Rath> Motion defeated.
22:43:06 <Haplo> well the 4 against is kind of pseudo
22:43:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Rush gave me his thoughts and vote
22:43:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so yeah
22:43:17 <Haplo> since one of the against isn't actually here it's not a fair representation
22:43:23 <Haplo> we counted rush in the 4
22:43:32 <Haplo> so it's really 5 against 3.5
22:43:36 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> i know, just clarifying for the record
22:43:41 <Haplo> oh
22:43:43 <Rath> k
22:43:49 <Rath> Next topic
22:43:55 <Rath> Filling the remaining officer positions with those candidates who were running for
them but were unopposed. (Jason Emerson)
22:44:00 <Haplo> aye
22:44:04 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye!
22:44:04 <Rath> Have at it, Kidd
22:44:08 <TeamColtra> :(
22:44:12 <K`Tetch> haeve the nominations actually closed yet?
22:44:19 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> 7 days for me
22:44:29 <K`Tetch> I meant what TIME do they close?
22:44:33 <TeamColtra> Yeah basically all positions are closed but promotions officer
22:44:35 <K`Tetch> midnight eastern
22:44:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> today is my candidacy's birthday according to the constitution
22:44:38 <TeamColtra> which is between myself an mr nathan
22:45:25 <K`Tetch> "which means that that last day to announce candidacy or nominate somebody else
is the 9th" even going by eastern time, there's still 75 mins
22:45:35 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> K'Tech: lol officially right now at 10:44 eastern
22:45:38 <Haplo> so assuming no one votes
22:45:39 <Haplo> I mean
22:45:42 <Haplo> no one else gets nominated
22:45:48 <Haplo> Kidd will automatically be elected at midnight
22:45:53 <K`Tetch> thats my point, right now it's an assumption
22:45:53 <Haplo> done
22:46:00 <TeamColtra> can you run for two positions
22:46:01 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> not 22:44 = 10:44
22:46:03 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> ?
22:46:03 <D-USA> KiDd, CaptBrianna, and Rush
22:46:04 <K`Tetch> kidd, CaptBrianna, and rush
22:46:05 <TeamColtra> :P i just wnat to run against kidd for fun
22:46:06 <TeamColtra> :D
22:46:13 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> No! Promo
22:46:19 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> cant do two :-P
22:46:25 <Haplo> Rush is not here
22:46:31 <TeamColtra> But you can run for two and step down as one if your elected for both
22:46:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah but he said me
22:46:35 <TeamColtra> ;)
22:46:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> check back
22:46:38 <Haplo> and K Tetch, even if someone else does get nominated
22:46:40 <TeamColtra> lol
22:46:42 <TeamColtra> jk
22:46:44 <Haplo> that makes this whole agenda item pointless
22:46:45 <TeamColtra> i don't even want to anyway
22:47:01 <Haplo> so we should all agree that if no one else gets nominated, then at midnight Kidd
automatically gets elected to thep osition
22:47:04 <Haplo> if not, then not
22:47:05 <TeamColtra> and I think you CAN hold two officer positions
22:47:06 <Haplo> if yes, then yes
22:47:11 <D-USA> what about Rush and Brianna
22:47:12 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> 7 days from the announcement, announcement was at 22:44 = 10:44 eastern
22:47:15 <TeamColtra> according to the rules
22:47:15 <D-USA> they are unopposed
22:47:16 <Rath> Kidd, Brianna, and Rush would all be elected then
22:47:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> it is now 10:46
22:47:23 <Haplo> oh
22:47:24 <D-USA> 7 days prior to vote
22:47:24 <Haplo> then all three of them
22:47:35 <D-USA> it has nothing to do with announcement.
22:47:50 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> then i'll wait D-USA
22:47:52 <D-USA> lol
22:47:53 <K`Tetch> and infact the announcement of nominations says "which means that that last day
to announce candidacy or nominate somebody else is the 9th"
22:47:59 <K`Tetch> it is still the 9th
22:48:02 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> like really? lol
22:48:06 <Haplo> I vote yes for implementing them at midnight, barring any other nominations
22:48:17 <CaptBrianna> yeah, and it's only quarter to nine here ...
22:48:17 <Haplo> and yes on fighting Acta
22:48:18 <K`Tetch> I thought we said 9am tommorow, last meeting
22:48:20 -!- Haplo is now known as Haplo|Away
22:48:23 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so an hour from now Hplo?
22:48:26 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> *Haplo
22:48:56 <CaptBrianna> she did say she had to go, lol
22:49:08 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> K'Tech: where did you get 9am from?
22:49:14 <K`Tetch> last emeting, I believe
22:49:17 <K`Tetch> I'll have to check the log
22:49:23 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> it's then 7 and a quarter days
22:49:33 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> can we re-write the constitution like that?
22:49:40 <D-USA> it should be 7 days BEFORE the vote
22:49:41 <TeamColtra> :) we can do whatever we want
22:49:48 <D-USA> announcment has no factor whatsoever
22:50:00 <Rath> ^
22:50:08 <D-USA> We can announce an election 8 years from now, it would close 7 days prior
22:50:09 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> All elections with a "draw" must be settled by a jello wrestling event
22:50:20 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> one of the things that should of been in the US constitution I believe
22:50:25 <TeamColtra> currently after you nominate yourself
22:50:33 <TeamColtra> it takes 30 days to vote
22:50:40 <TeamColtra> if no vote you get it by default or something like that
22:50:45 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> unopposed is 7 days from announcement
22:50:47 <Rath> wat
22:50:49 <Rath> no
22:50:53 <CaptBrianna> did the forefather have jello?
22:50:59 <Rath> Guys
22:50:59 <Rath> Topic
22:51:04 <D-USA> unnoposed is if only one person runs by the time it closes, which is 7 days prior
to election
22:51:10 <Rath> ^
22:51:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> CaptBrianna: wasn't invented yet, hospital patients got oatmeal and
whiskey instead
22:51:17 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> better days....
22:51:20 <K`Tetch> where did you get the 7 days from announcement from CaPtAiN_KiDd?
22:51:21 <CaptBrianna> nice
22:51:34 <K`Tetch> the onyl thing about announcement is that nominations have to be open for at
LEAST 7 days
22:51:35 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, thats not right
22:51:38 <TeamColtra> or I would be promotions officer
22:51:39 <K`Tetch> and mo more than 30
22:51:53 <TeamColtra> the second annoucement for the position came 8 days after I put my
nomination in
22:52:05 <TeamColtra> you misread it
22:52:20 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Nominations shall be announced a minimum term of 7 days before a vote
should be held.
22:52:25 <K`Tetch> back in July we had nominations open for 21 days
22:52:34 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we voted last meeting to have today be the day it ends
22:52:34 <K`Tetch> yes, a minimum term
22:52:42 <K`Tetch> meaning you can't have a nomination window of LESS htan 7 days
22:52:52 <D-USA> we voted last meeting to have a vote on the 16th,
22:52:58 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and Promo was to be held on the 12th or 19th
22:53:05 <D-USA> wich means that 7 days before the election (today) is the last day to nominate
22:53:06 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> no, promo was 16th
22:53:11 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> my bad
22:53:12 <Rath> They were all on the same day
22:53:30 <K`Tetch> Nominations shall be announced a minimum term of 7 days before a vote should be
held. Nominations may be held open for up to 30 days.
22:53:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so i gotta hold off AMP magazine and all the other people until the 16th?
22:53:41 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> weak
22:53:46 <K`Tetch> No
22:53:50 <D-USA> KiDd: Today is the last day to nominate
22:53:53 <D-USA> if nobody nominates you are unopposed
22:53:54 <TeamColtra> no because you will be unopposed CaPtAiN_KiDd
22:53:59 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> oh ok
22:54:01 <TeamColtra> :P unless I run for your sp[ot too
22:54:02 <K`Tetch> of course, I'm still waiting to hear how this AMP magazine came about
22:54:03 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> i win!
22:54:03 <TeamColtra> Muahhahah
22:54:04 <K`Tetch> who approached who
22:54:18 <Rath> Ok, so. For those candidates who are unopposed, when are they taking office?
Midnight, or 9 am?
22:54:21 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, I can still run ;)
22:54:25 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> K'Tech: believe it or not I have these people called "friends" that I talk
to regularly
22:54:28 <TeamColtra> but I wont
22:54:33 <TeamColtra> mainly I don't like headaches
22:54:33 <TeamColtra> :P
22:54:37 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> these "friends" hold "jobs" (sometimes)
22:55:05 <Rath> We have a topic on the table, folks.
22:55:12 <Rath> Keep on topic, please.
22:55:22 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yeah!
22:55:23 <CaptBrianna> I just lost track of what exactly it was....
22:55:25 <TeamColtra> you could have repeated the topic
22:55:30 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> declare me winner! muahahaha!
22:55:36 <K`Tetch> CaPtAiN_KiDd - so basically, from what you've said, you promoted yourself as an
officer, to get a job, on behalf of the party, claiming a position you didn't have?
22:55:48 <CaptBrianna> what?
22:55:52 <Rath> TOPIC: For those candidates who are unopposed, when are they taking office?
Midnight, or 9 am?
22:55:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I talked to a friend about a potential post who she hasnt talkjed to
anyone but me about
22:55:59 <K`Tetch> you said the column was contingent on you having the position
22:56:03 <TeamColtra> CaptBrianna, you should put in your nomination for officer for whatever
CaPtAiN_KiDd is running for
22:56:04 <TeamColtra> it will be fun
22:56:14 <K`Tetch> rath, 9am meansit's after midnight on all parts of US soil
22:56:17 <CaptBrianna> lol!
22:56:26 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> contingent yeah, nothing definite...want me to log my phone convos with
friends?
22:56:48 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> then you and your Bar passing self...oh THAT'S right!
22:56:56 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> back on topic
22:56:59 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> agenda please
22:57:03 <CaptBrianna> Yes Kidd, especial the ones to 900 #'s
22:57:15 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> CaptBrianna: I charge for voyeur
22:57:35 * Rath moves to propose that all candidates who have no opposition by the deadline take
officer at 9 AM EST on 2/10/10
22:57:41 <TeamColtra> second
22:57:43 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> second
22:57:47 * K`Tetch votes AYE
22:57:54 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
22:58:01 <CaptBrianna> aye
22:58:12 <CaptBrianna> midnight EST?
22:58:12 <D-USA> aye
22:58:22 <CaptBrianna> (never mind)
22:58:29 <TeamColtra> Aye
22:58:31 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> 9am (like it matters)
22:58:35 * D-USA votes aye
22:58:44 <CaptBrianna> (sorry, I learned how to read now)
22:59:07 <K`Tetch> we need a firm time for a nomonation deadline
22:59:20 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> (see 9am)
22:59:28 * Rath votes aye
22:59:35 <Rath> Passed
22:59:37 <Rath> Last topic
22:59:39 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> and it's passed!
22:59:52 <Rath> Response to USTR asking for ACTA input.
22:59:55 <CaptBrianna> yay!
23:00:09 <K`Tetch> that was me
23:00:14 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> point of inquiry...what is this?
23:00:16 <K`Tetch> it's not a yes/no
23:00:42 <K`Tetch> http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/09/us-trade-rep-wants-y.html - CaPtAiN_KiDd
23:01:00 <Rath> The US representative is asking for input on ACTA
23:01:18 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> I say we gove them our input...give our input HARD
23:01:19 <K`Tetch> the deadline is the 16th
23:01:21 <K`Tetch> a week from now
23:01:40 <K`Tetch> I'd like a group to get together and work on an official response by, say,
saturday
23:01:52 <CaptBrianna> So, does anyone have a response to propose, or are we just deciding whether
to send one.
23:01:53 <K`Tetch> to submit+publish sunday
23:01:54 <CaptBrianna> oh, ok
23:02:11 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> pfft! done. I specialize in well structured letters to government officials
23:02:34 <K`Tetch> so my proposal
23:02:49 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> move to vote on this?
23:03:39 <K`Tetch> I propose the formation of an open ad-hoc group of members to work on a
response to officially convey the points of the party to the USTR. The document should be
competleted on Saturday, and approved by the admin(and officers) for it's publication and
submission on sunday
23:03:39 <TeamColtra> wait... so why couldnt' we just do this/
23:03:53 <TeamColtra> without the vote?
23:03:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> we can
23:04:11 <K`Tetch> I did it to bring it to our attention
23:04:12 <CaptBrianna> I know, and then present it to us TO vote on sending!
23:04:12 <Rath> Seconded
23:04:15 <K`Tetch> and also to propose a method
23:04:16 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> on owen's public pad of amazingness we shall converge!
23:04:27 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, I would love to work on it with you
23:04:28 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> second
23:04:31 <TeamColtra> We can do it all night
23:04:33 <TeamColtra> err..
23:04:36 <TeamColtra> I vote aye
23:04:38 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> Coltra, it would be my pleasure :-)
23:04:40 <Rath> The deadline is before the next meeting, Brianna, if I remember right
23:04:41 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> aye
23:04:53 * Rath votes aye
23:05:18 <D-USA> aye
23:05:20 <CaptBrianna> I just found out we had meetings today, lol, tax time is a bit brutal for
me....
23:05:28 <CaptBrianna> aye
23:05:37 <Rath> No worries
23:05:57 <Rath> K'tetch
23:06:19 <K`Tetch> yes?
23:06:27 <K`Tetch> I proposed, so my vote should be automatic
23:06:30 <Rath> Ah
23:06:34 <Rath> K, passes
23:06:50 <CaptBrianna> (rules of order ... you should still vote. Just sayin')
23:07:07 <TeamColtra> lol CaptBrianna rules of order are next week ;)
23:07:14 <CaptBrianna> lol ... dang it
23:07:27 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> so what you're saying Coltra is that this whole time I wore clothes....for
nothing
23:07:28 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> great...
23:07:35 <Rath> k
23:07:47 <TeamColtra> CaPtAiN_KiDd, had you followed my lead you wouldn't have been
23:07:54 <K`Tetch> while we're discussing, do we have any suggestions on topics to cover in our
comments
23:07:57 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> (giggidy)
23:08:02 <Rath> So, next meeting, same time?
23:08:02 <Rath> February 16th
23:08:07 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> yup yup
23:08:14 <TeamColtra> Wait
23:08:18 <TeamColtra> 9EST or 8
23:08:20 <CaptBrianna> Remember - 2 hrs difference for us!
23:08:23 <TeamColtra> we seemed to all be here at 8 anyway
23:08:25 <CaPtAiN_KiDd> you gotta adjourn/dismiss us Madame Admin (calling you that btw)
23:08:44 <Rath> 9 EST
23:08:47 <Rath> Same time as today
23:08:52 <Rath> Alright, adjourned.
